LL-L "Language policies" 2002.08.08 (02) [E]

Thu Aug 8 14:36:03 UTC 2002

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 L O W L A N D S - L * 08.AUG.2002 (02) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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 A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian L=Limburgish
 LS=Low Saxon (Low German) S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic Z=Zeelandic (Zeeuws)
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From: "Mike Aryunov" <kraai at mail.ru>
Subject: LL-L "Language policies" 2002.08.06 (03) [D/E]

Hello Lowlanders,

Luc Hellinckx wrote:

> Even to this day, Flemish and
> Brabantish
> intrest in southern Polish and western Ukrainian  culture is relatively
> active. In this respect, I once heard Ukrainian people compare Ukraine
> to
> Belgium.
> Roughly speaking both are divided in two parts :
>
> Belgium : north vs. south
> Ukraine : west vs. east
>
> Both western Ukraine and northern Belgium have a well developed catholic
> background and the population has been predominantly agricultural for a
> long
> time.
> Eastern Ukraine and southern Belgium on the other hand are more or less
> "socialist minded" and all kinds of "heavy industry" used to play a
> major
> role in everyday life.
> Moreover, these two "antagonizing" entities are being held together
> (superficially ???) by a capital right on the border of these two
> communities, Brussels and Kiev respectively.

In the broad sense comparison is rather an art than a science. In order
to
stay on a solid ground we need to specify more precisely the field of
consideration. From what point of view should we look at the phenomenon?
Ethnologic, social, linguistic, economic? Take any two countries from
various parts of the globe and consider them from various points. I bet
there will be much in common and much different as well. Comparison
becomes
often an instrument of ideology. When Ukrainians talk about similarity
between their country and for example Belgium I think they try to claim
their 'Western' identity because of fairly political reasons. There is
something what is really different in Ukrain than in Belgium: the
languages.
Firstly they are mutually intelligible among the speakers of both
Russian
and Ukrainian. Both languages may seem different from an academic point
of
view but they constitute in fact a linguistic continuum, just as or
almost
as German and Dutch. Speech in border regions (especially in villages)
may
be perceived as transitional from one language to another. Take for
example Belgorod (Russian Federation) where people speak Russian far
different from that of Moscow.

Mike Aryunov

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From: "Ahlfeld, Ross" <ross.ahlfeld at invitrogen.com>
Subject: Language and cultural attitudes " 08/08/02

Greetings to everyone on the LOWLANDS-L mailing list. I have recently
joined
so sincerest apologies if I have broken any rules by staring a new
discussion ? Please feel free to correct me if this is the case. I would
like very much to raise a couple of points and get your opinions on them
....

1. I live in a small town in the West Lowlands of Scotland called
Gourock,
the Gaelic traditions of the Highlands have always seemed as alien to me
as
the dialects of Northern England. My Great Grandfather came here as an
immigrant from Lower Saxony, his son(my Grandfather) spoke what I would
call
the Scots dialect. Today if I was to try and speak in this same language
at
work I would be both mocked and reprimanded or if a School pupil was to
speak in this way he also would disciplined. I think that this is mainly
because the establishment is of the opinion that "Scots" is a corrupt or
"Slang" form of modern English and that the true language of the
Scottish
nation is Gaelic. As far as I am aware both of these arguments are
incorrect
... Scotland was originally made up of four tribes being Scots, Angels,
Britons and Picts but only the Scots spoke Gaelic and the Angles brought
what became the Scots language which developed separately from
Anglo-Saxon
English and not as a result of Anglo-Saxon English.  Would you agree
with
this ?

2. You may or may not be aware that there is a growing movement in the
north
of Ireland to promote what they call "Ulster Inglis" The authorities in
the
north of Ireland have always been more willing to invest money into
"Scots"
than the authorities in Scotland itself ever have. However, like most
things in Ulster there is sadly always the suspicion of sectarianism and
bigotry lingering in the background. With this in mind do we feel that
"Ulster Inglis" is only being promoted artificially to counter and
undermine the promotion of Gaelic by the Nationalist community or do we
think that people in Ulster are descended from 16th Century Scots
settlers and so have the right to promote this language ?

Again, apologies if this is in actual fact something which you may have
already discussed previously.
Warmest Regards
Ross Ahlfeld

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