LL-L "Language varieties" 2002.08.13 (04) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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 L O W L A N D S - L * 13.AUG.2002 (04) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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 A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian L=Limburgish
 LS=Low Saxon (Low German) S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic Z=Zeelandic (Zeeuws)
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From: erek gass <egass at caribline.com>
Subject: LL-L "Language varities" 2002.08.12 (04) [E]

I'm certainly willing to yield to John's comments below.  I was seeking
a shorthand method of writing things out.  It is easier to write "ss"
(or "ms"?) than "modern Shetlandic".

Erek

>From: "John M. Tait" <jmtait at wirhoose.co.uk>
>Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2002.08.04 (08) [E]
>
>Erek wrote:
>>
>>Ron suggested that I share this idea with the rest of the group.  How
>>does it sound to all of you, particularly those of you most interested
>>in Scots/Shetlandic/Orkney.
>>
>>Perhaps, it's time to come up with some nomenclature for different
>>> languages using the same name.  Modern Shetlandic and Orkney "dialects",
>>> while bearing influence of their Norse past, are clearly part of some
>>> Scots tradition.  You, and perhaps those like "The Adventures o'McNab",
>>> asf, are no doubt better equipt to speak to this matter, but I (in my
>>> semi-ignorance -- it used to be less till I've read all of the Scots
>>> material coming across "lowlands-l") will toos out these suggestions in
>>> the hope that we'll know whereof we allude at some time in the future:
>>>
>>> Old Shetlandic (Norse-based) -- Norn Shetlandic (or "ns").
>>> Modern Shetlandic (West Germanic) -- Scots Shetlandic (or "ss").
>>> Old Orkney (Norse-based "Orcadian") -- Norn Orkney (or "no").
>>> Modern Orkney (West Germanic) -- Scots Orkney (or "so").
>>>
>>> [One reason I suggest reversing the noun and the adjective is to avoid
>>> obvious abbreviational confusion that is "on" typically is identified
>>> with Old Norse, and "os" with Old Saxon.]
>
>I don't see any point in inventing terms where adequate ones already
>exist. The Norse dialects once spoken in Orkney, Shetland and Caithness
>are always referred to as 'Norn' and are differentiated as Caithness
>Norn, Orkney Norn and Shetland Norn respectively. To use terms such as
>'Norn Shetlandic' would be to replace terms which already have a
>recognised meaning - such as 'Shetland Norn' with terms which don't.
>
>A more serious problem with 'Norn Shetlandic' and 'Scots Shetlandic' is
>that they imply that these are two different varieties of one entity -
>'Shetlandic' - whereas in fact Norn and modern Shetlandic are different
>languages. In this respect, the reversal of the noun and adjective is
>potentially misleading.
>
>The question of what to call modern Shetlandic is rather less clear. I
>see nothing wrong with 'Shetlandic', as this term is widely used by
>Scottish linguists, and is never confused with the Norse language Norn.
>Any confusion which may arise is simply owing to unfamiliarity with the
>usual terminology, and it seems to me that inventing another terminology
>will simply add more confusion. The distinction from Norn can, if
>wished, be made explicit by writing 'modern Shetlandic.'
>
>BTW - why 'Orkney' and 'Shetlandic'? Why not either 'Orcadian' and
>'Shetlandic' or 'Orkney' and 'Shetland'?
>
>John M. Tait.
>
>http://www.wirhoose.co.uk

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