LL-L "Grammar" 2002.08.13 (06) [E/S]

Tue Aug 13 20:50:32 UTC 2002

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From: "Sandy Fleming" <sandy at fleimin.demon.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L: "Grammar" LOWLANDS-L [E/S]

[The following is in Scots and English]

A while back (aboot the start o the year, A think), the war a
discussion forenent verb concord in Scots. The rule o Scots
verb concord could be pitten like this:

    "A finite verb's aye infleckit (taks a 's') forby strecht
     efter the pronouns 'A', 'we', 'ye/you' an 'they'."

Sae, for example, we say:

"They aye sings in the kirk."

but:

"They sing in the kirk."

or:

"A think on ma love, an blears ma een wi greetin."

but:

"A think on ma love, an A blear ma een wi greetin."

or:

"I hae tae gang tae the funeral."

but:

"Haes I tae gang tae the funeral?"

The rule wants qualifyin on accoont o its the historical
development tho, in thir weys:

1. Originally, the verb "tae be" wis exempt fae the rule, an
juist cam ablo the rule gradual. It's like ther's never been
a time whan it cam ablo the rule aathegither, sae's altho this
is gey uizual:

"Fowk's no aa bad."

the'r naething wrang wi this, aither:

"Fowk arna aa bad."

2. Writers fae Allan Ramsay on, at the least, seems tae a
maistly ignored Scots verb concord an uized English verb
concord insteed, likely wi no wantin tae leuk uneducate.

3. Writers that's made a pynt o uizin Scots verb concord
uizually uizes a simplified form, ignorin sic things as
non-contact inflections an derivative forms the likes o
the "Habitual" an "Praisent Historic" tenses in Scots.

4. The influence o English education in Scotland haes made
English verb concord mair uizual for a lot o spaekers nouadays.

Weel, that's a summary o the phenomenon. What A wis wantin
tae say tho, is adae wi ma mention o the Habitual an Praisent
Historic tenses abuin, as "derivative forms". This is juist a
idea A haed lately, but A dinna richt ken whit wey grammar
chainges comes aboot in langages, sae A wis wonderin if this
wis feasable.

In the Praisent Historic the rule's that finite verbs taks
the '-s' inflection the hale time. For example:

"They sing in the kirk."

is sayed:

"They sings in the kirk."

A wis wonderin, hou dis the Praisent Historic come tae be
like this in Scots? Tak this English sentence tae contrast
the English storytellin tense wi the Scots:

"I stop right there, and realise I've made a mistake, and run
back to the house..."

that wi uizual Scots verb concord is:

"A stop richt thare, an jalouzes A'v mistaen masel, an rins
back tae the hoose..."

Could it juist be that a spaeker tellin a story like this haes
that mony '-s' inflections he transfers them tae every verb:

"A stops richt thare, an jalouzes A'v mistaen masel, an rins
back tae the hoose..."

In ither wirds, it gits tae be a habit? Could this be the wey
we git the Scots form o the Praisent Historic?

Anither Scots tense that uizes the '-s' inflection the hale
time is the Praisent Habitual:

"We sings in the kirk on a Sunday."

A wonder is this no derived fae Scots verb concord an aa, wi
there bein a "implied aye" atween the pronoun an the verb?
Sae's:

"We aye sings in the kirk on a Sunday."

wi the 'aye' hippit wi it bein implied bi the inflection,
landin us at:

"We sings in the kirk on a Sunday."

Dis aa this soond richt?

[English]

Some time ago (around the start of the year, I think), there was
a discussion on verb concord in Scots. The rule of Scots verb
concord could be stated in this manner:

    "A finite verb is always inflected (takes an 's') except
     when it immediately follows the pronouns 'A', 'we',
     'ye/you' an 'they'."

So, for example, we say:

"They aye sings in the kirk."

but:

"They sing in the kirk."

or:

"A think on ma love, an blears ma een wi greetin."

but:

"A think on ma love, an A blear ma een wi greetin."

or:

"I hae tae gang tae the funeral."

but:

"Haes I tae gang tae the funeral?"

The rule has to be qualified as a result of to its historical
development, however, in the following ways:

1. Originally, the verb "tae be" was exempt from the rule, and
came under the rule gradually. There never seems to have been
a time when the rule applied to it fully, so although this is
is quite usual:

"Fowk's no aa bad."

the following is also acceptable:

"Fowk arna aa bad."

2. Writers, from Allan Ramsay onwards at least, seem to
have mostly ignored Scots verb concord and used English verb
concord instead, presumably to avoid seeming uneducated.

3. Writers that have been careful to use Scots verb concord
usually employ a simplified form, ignoring such things as
non-contact inflections an derivative forms such as the
"Habitual" an "Present Historic" tenses in Scots.

4. The influence of English education in Scotland has made
English verb concord the norm for many speakers these days.

So that's a summary of the phenomenon. What I wanted
to say however, is to do with my mention of the Habitual and
Present Historic tenses above, as "derivative forms". This
is just an idea I've had lately, but I don't really know much
about how grammatical changes come about in languages, so I
was wondering if the following is feasable.

In the Present Historic the rule is that finite verbs take
the '-s' inflection in all cases. For example:

"They sing in the kirk."

is said:

"They sings in the kirk."

I was wondering, how did the Present Historic come to take
this form in Scots? Take this English sentence to contrast
the English storytelling tense with the Scots:

"I stop right there, and realise I've made a mistake, and run
back to the house..."

Which with normal Scots verb concord is:

"A stop richt thare, an jalouzes A'v mistaen masel, an rins
back tae the hoose..."

Could it just be that a speaker telling a story like this has
such a proliferation of '-s' inflections that he transfers
them to all finite verbs:

"A stops richt thare, an jalouzes A'v mistaen masel, an rins
back tae the hoose..."

In other words, it gets to be a habit? Could this be how
we arrive at the Scots form of the Present Historic?

Another Scots tense that uses the '-s' inflection in all
cases is the Present Habitual:

"We sings in the kirk on a Sunday."

I wonder if this is also derived from Scots verb concord,
having an "implied aye" between the pronoun and the verb?
So that:

"We aye sings in the kirk on a Sunday."

with the 'aye' dropped since it's implied by the inflection,
giving us:

"We sings in the kirk on a Sunday."

Does this make sense?

Sandy
http://scotstext.org
A dinna dout him, for he says that he
On nae accoont wad ever tell a lee.
                          - C.W.Wade,
                    'The Adventures o McNab'

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