LL-L "Grammar" 2002.08.22 (07) [S]

[Lowlands-L]

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 L O W L A N D S - L * 22.AUG.2002 (07) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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 A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian L=Limburgish
 LS=Low Saxon (Low German) S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic Z=Zeelandic (Zeeuws)
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From: "John M. Tait" <jmtait at wirhoose.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Grammar" 2002.08.18 (07) [S]

Sandy wrate:
>
>It micht be different for Doric an that, but leukin at ither mainland
>Scots, tho on the tae haun it's true that thir forms is deein oot an
>even the maist traditional spaekers seems tae uize a mixtur o the
>traditional forms an the less traditional nouadays, on the tither
>haun A dinna think ye can say writers writes athoot contack forms for
>that it's the wey they spaeks.
>
>(In the ablo A'm sayin "contack form" whan A mean the writer adds a -s
>wi a non-contack form, ie he respecks the rule anent contack forms.)

I think I'v been misunderstaundin ye here, Sandy. I wis takkin 'contact
form' ti mean whan a verb is richt niest it's 'proper pronoun' - like
'thay gang', etc. - an 'non contact' ti mean onie verb at's no niest
it's pronoun. Sae, whan ye say a writer disna uise contact maks, ar ye
meanin at thay dinna follae the tradeetional Scots rule? (Sorry if I'm
bein a numpty here!) Like, whan ye say at Lorimer:
>
>(4) disna uize contack forms but is consistent wi the ither "clessic"
>forms.

div ye mean at he disna follae the rule at a verb ends in -s except
neist it's pronoun? If sae, whit aboot this:

'Men an weimen i this warld _mairries_, but them at is hauden wurdie tae
win (infinitive) tae the neist warld an rise (infinitive) frae the deid
_mairries_ nane, for than they _ar_ (in contact wi pronoun) like the
angels an canna die, an throu the resurrection _hes_ (no in contact wi
pronoun) been born again as sons o God.'

This seems ti me ti be exactly the rule ye'v been sayin. Sae whit div ye
mean whan ye say Lorimer disna dae it? Is it yer terminology I'm no
liftin? Or bi 'contact forms' div ye mean maks like 'A kens' etc?
>
>Wi (4) oor on tae a translator that disna spaek Scots. He's
>the only ane that uizes the "clessic" forms consistent an
>yit the'r nae question that he didna spaek this wey - cause
>he didna spaek Scots!

Hing on a meentie - did ye no say a meenit syne at he didna uise thaim?
Ye canna hae sayed that, sae whit is it I'm no gettin here, like? (I
hinna been on the barley bree, aither! Grape bree disna coont...)
>
>A think nou if ye tak the hale thing, ye canna come tae the
>conclusion that a text no uizin contack forms tells ye
>onything anent whether the writer uized them in spaek.

Ay, I gree wi this, but that's no whit I'm sayin. Aa I wis sayin wis
that:

1. Thatten monie Scots writers uises the English forms at whan ye finnd
forms at's different frae the English it's aither:

a) Cause thay'v slippit in frae the writer's speak - uisually
inconsistently.

b) Cause the writer is deleeberately follaein some rule (Lorimer)

Sae whan we come ower uiss o Scots verb concord at's naither
tradeetional Scots nor English, it coud be at that's the wey the writer
speaks!

>A lands at the same conclusion thinkin on aa the texts A kens,

Hou dis 'A lands' an 'A kens' fit inti the rule?

John.

http://www.wirhoose.co.uk

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