LL-L "Etymology" 2002.12.07 (01) [E]

Sat Dec 7 06:33:31 UTC 2002

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 A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
 L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic
               V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: ntl <shoogly at ntlworld.com>
Subject: LL-L "Help needed" 2002.12.06 (14) [E]

"Gallous / Gallus " is very much a Glasgow word. I am from and grew up in
Edinburgh - and have never heard it used in this area - in fact we see the
word "gallus" as being very Glaswegian. Here we use the word "barrie" with
the a similar meaning of Great / fantastic.  Though in Glasgow Gallus can
have the meaning of someone being slightly cheeky or reckless.  Looking in
the Scots Concise dictionary - they state that "gall(o)us" is chiefly WC
dialect ( that is West Central dialect -the area around Glasgow ) and is
first attested in the late 18th Centaury.  According to the Collins Scots
dictionary gallus "was originally derogatory and meant wild, rascally and
deserving to be hanged from the gallows" - and indeed the Concise Scots
dictionary has the origin of the word from Gallows too.  So gallus finds it
origin in the Scots equivalent of the English word Gallows - which according
to the Oxford English dictionary is from the Old English galga / gealga
relating to the Dutch galg and reinforced in middle English by Old Norse
galgi.  Remembering that Scots is descended of a different dialect of Old
English from English- it could have been from that source -or from English:
Since "gall(o)us" as an independent word is first attested in the late 18th
centaury - it may have come from English gallows. But "Gallows, gallowis" -
are attested from the 15th - 17th Centaury - it may have come from Scots
itself ~ and Gall(o)us - in the meaning of Gallows from the 15th - 20th
Centaury ( note here - NOT in the use of meaning fantastic / reckless or
cheeky - as later use which as stated above only was first attested from the
18th Centaury but in the meaning of Gallows). So it seems - that its origin
is in old English - but whether it came from the dialect that became Scots
or the dialect that became English and because it's late date as first being
noted as being used with this meaning ( i.e post Union and with the heavy
pressure of English to dominate )- is a mute point - it is one of these
words where there is so much similarity between them - that it is maybe
difficult to ascertain which is its origin.

So it seems to be a derivative from the word "Gallows" - which is found both
in Scots and English and has it's origin in Old English - but whether it was
first derived its meaning of reckless/ cheeky from the Scots or English word
for Gallows - I think would be hard to ascertain. Hope this make some
sense!!!

 The Edinburgh word "barrie" is from the Romany  -we have a number of word
in Edinburgh of Romany origin.

Chris Ferguson

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From: Marcel Bas <mrbas_26 at hotmail.com>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2002.12.06 (02) [E]

Theo,

I should add something to the etymology of the Dutch word _pink_:
another source, Jan de Vries's Etymologisch Woordenboek van de Nederlandse
Taal, says that the word might be deriving from the word _pin_, because of
its narrow, small shape.
In Old English _pinca_ means 'point', which also derives from _pin_. The
etymology is uncertain, but I happen to like my own hypothesis, of the word
being preserved by children's language :p

Regards, Marcel.

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

Marcel, Theo, Lowlanders,

Let's not forget that Scottish and American English, too, has "pinky
(finger)" ~ "pinkie (finger)" for "little finger," assumedly emanating from
Scots _pink(ie)_, and that American English got it from Scottish immigrants.

In Scots, besides "little finger," _pinkie_ and (earlier?) _pink_ can denote
anything small, also 'narrowed', 'peering' and 'winking' of eyes (cf. Dutch
_pinken_ 'to wink'), and in addition the verb: intransitively denoting 'to
fall' (of small objects, such as drops), and transitively denoting 'to
strike with a small object so as to make a sharp, piercing sound.'

I am wondering if Dutch and Scots just happen to have preserved the above or
if it has something to do with Dutch-Scots contacts, such as medieval
"Flemish" emigration to Scotland.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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