LL-L "Syntax" 2002.12.18 (08) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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 A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
 L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic
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From: burgdal32admin <burgdal32 at pandora.be>
Subject: LL-L "Syntax" 2002.12.16 (04) [E]

  From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
  Subject: Syntax

  Dear Lowlanders,

  I wonder if some of you are interested in revisiting once again the topic
of
  double negation and exploring triple negation, these being commonly
regarded
  as being features of unsophisticated or substandard speech modes but are
  grammatically prescribed or at least acceptable in some standard varieties
  (e.g., in Afrikaans in the Lowlands group).

  In Northern Lowlands Saxon (Low German), double negation may occur with
  _nich_ ([nIC]) ~ _ni_ ([nI]) ~_neet_ ([nE.It]) ~ _naait_ ([na.It]) ‘not’
  if a phrase contains a negative pronoun or adverb, and this form of double
  negation is mandatory if negation is stressed; e.g.,

  (1)
  Nüms (~ keeneen) snackt mit Lies’.
  (“Nobody (~ no one) talks with Elizabeth.”)
  ‘Nobody talks with Elisabeth.’

  (2)
  Nüms (~ keeneen) snackt nich mit Lies’.
  (“Nobody (~ no one) talks not with Elizabeth.”)
  ‘Nobody does talk with Elisabeth.’

  (3)
  Mit Lies’ wardt nie (nich) snackt.
  (“With Elizabeth is never (not) talked.” [impersonal passive])
  ‘One doesn’t talk with Elizabeth.’

  (4)
  Mit Lies’ wardt nie nich snackt.
  (“With Elizabeth is never not talked.” [impersonal passive]))
  ‘One doesn’t ever talk with Elizabeth.’

  I suppose those of you who know Afrikaans or certain non-standard
varieties
  of other Lowlands languages are familiar with this sort of structure and
  understand that using a second negative does not cancel/negate the other
  negative. (I was tempted to provide Afrikaans equivalents but decided to
  let others do so if they wish.)

  In Sorbian (~ Lusatian ~ "Wendish", a group of West Slavonic varieties now
  unique to Germany), including the two standard varieties, double negation
  and even triple negation is mandatory and does not lead to cancellation or
  double-cancellation; e.g., Standard Upper Sorbian:

  (5)
  Nichtó z Hilžu nihdy njereci.
  (“Nobody (~ no one) with Elizabeth never not-talks.”)
  (“Nobody doesn’t never not talk with Elizabeth.” = ungrammatical)
  (“Nobody never talks with Elizabeth.” = marginally substandard)
  ‘Nobody ever talks with Elizabeth.’

  In Lowlands Saxon this can be grammatical, albeit perhaps marginally so to
  some listeners:

  (6)
  Nüms (~ keeneen) snackt nie nich mit Lies’.
  (“Nobody (~ no one) talks never not with Elizabeth.”)
  ‘Nobody ever talks with Elizabeth.’ [?]

  To me it “feels” emphatically negative (“nobody never ever ...”). To some
  listeners there may be emphatic cancellation here, though I am not sure:
  “There isn’t anybody that never talks with Elizabeth.” =
  “Everybody talks (~ does talk) with Elizabeth.”

  Probably constructions 1-4 above would be clearer, hence preferable. What
  do others think? How does this sort of thing play out in other Lowlands
  varieties?

  Thanks in advance.

  Reinhard/Ron

Dear Ron,

We have some similar negations in West-Flemish:

't Ei mi da niemand nie gezeid (nobody said that to me).
'k En zeg 'et niet (I don't say it)
Neên, gij eit mie dao nie gezien? Nink(no, you did'nt see me there? No i
didn't)
Gij en gaot dat niet zegg'n eneê? (You won't say that, don't you?)
'k Ei em dao nieverans nie geziene (I didn't see him anywhere)
Ge ziet gij nie ziek neê? Nink (You are not sick? Yes I'm not)
Kijkt ne keê o t'er geên gevaor niet en is.Nint(Look if there is no danger.
No there isn't)
Other words that strengthens the negative:
nievers niet(nowhere)
nooit niet(never)
niemand niet(no one)
geênszins niet (not at all)

Greetings
Luc Vanbrabant
Oekene

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