LL-L "Morphology" 2002.02.05 (07) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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 L O W L A N D S - L * 05.FEB.2002 (07) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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From: Sandy Fleming [sandy at scotstext.org]
Subject: "Morphology"

> From: "Aviad Stier" <aviad2001 at hotmail.com>
> Subject:
>
> me like it might have something to do with the fact that they're mostly
> things that come in herds or groups: same for shrimp (like fish), airplane
> and aircraft, antelope, plaice, trout, salmon, herring (well, fish again),
> and more. I wonder if 'hair' didn't start off like that, too, with both
> 'hair' and 'hairs' being plural. For cows you also have the collective
> plural "cattle", but I can't remember a similar name for any other animal.
> Aviad Stier
> Brussels, Belgium
>
> From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Morphology
>
> Sandy wrote:
>
> > With sheep, on the other hand, the uncountable form is "mutton".
> > The distinct word makes it a bit of an exception (along with such
> > words as "beef" and "pork" that also came from French), so these
> > are irregular forms, the regular forms being "lambs" (countable),
> > "lamb" (uncountable), "chickens", "chicken" &c. I think what these
> > words have in common is that they're animals (countable) which get
> > converted into food (uncountable).
>
> But don't the French-derived mass nouns "mutton," "beef" and
> "pork" only refer
> to meat rather than to the actual animal?  In other word, don't they just
> refer to different types of edible matter?  As far as I can tell, the only
> mass noun for animals is "cattle" in reference to domestic
> bovines (= wealth).

I'd say you're both talking about different levels of mass.
"Cattle" refers to a mass of cows/bulls, whereas "beef" refers
to a mass of dead cow matter (inelegantly put, but accurate!).

Similarly "hair" refers to a mass of hairs.

My point was on the lower level - when an animal is killed its
countable plural is singularised for use as a mass noun to
describe its flesh. The French borrowings are exceptions because
this principle applies for most other meats:

chickens -> chicken (flesh)
squirrels -> squirrel (flesh)
rats -> rat
cheeses -> cheese
&c

However you look at it, it doesn't change the fact that using
the form "euro" as a plural suggests a mass noun in English,
and this is inappropriate.

Sandy
http://scotstext.org
A dinna dout him, for he says that he
On nae accoont wad ever tell a lee.
                          - C.W.Wade,
                    'The Adventures o McNab'

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