LL-L "Names" 2002.02.23 (01) [E]

Sat Feb 23 21:07:10 UTC 2002

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 L O W L A N D S - L * 23.FEB.2002 (01) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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From: "Jan Strunk" <strunk at linguistics.ruhr-uni-bochum.de>
Subject: LL-L "Names" 2002.02.22 (14) [E]

Dear Lowlanders,

erek gass wrote:
> My sources have always related Heligo- (or Helgo-) land to the English
> "hallow".
> The island was once regarded as "holy" or "hallowed" land.  I'm astonished
> that this is even in doubt, but if someone has a better derivation, I'm
happy
> to hear about it!

Today I found the time to look into some books including
and Old Frisian Dictionnary and some books about geographical
names in Germany.
The Old Frisian Dictionnary only contains:
hellich ---> holy as a possible source and no trace of
ohg. ha:li: or cognates. Moreover, the books on geographical names state
that Helgoland comes from "holy" land. One even mentioned "Forsetes".
Up till now I had always assumed that "Forseti" was only a Nordic god,
and one that is only rarely mentioned in the Old Icelandic Edda (in the
Grímnismál) as the god of justice. Meyer's "Altgermanische
Religionsgeschichte"
which admittedly is a rather old book (1909) has the following to say
about Forseti:

"Doch zeugt ein Hain Forsetalund in Norwegen für seine Verehrung.
Ein Gott Fosite, Fosete oder Foseti herrscht über "Fosetisland" nach dem
Bericht der Vita Willibrordi von Karls des Großen Freund Alcuin; aus ihr
sind zwei andere Berichte abgeleitet, insbesondere auch der des Adam
von Bremen (um 1050). Wie Siebs erwiesen hat, stammt erst von Adam
die Behauptung, Fositesland sei Helgoland, zu der ihn etymologische
Gründe veranlaßten. Helgoland kann es aber n i c h t sein; vielleicht
lag
Fositesland "in Frisia citerior, dem friesischen Küstengebiet westlich
der
Zuidersee", vielleicht auf der 'insula' Axel." (S.381)

He then goes on about the cults connected to this god and about the
question whether old nordic Forseti and Fosete are the same god.

So probably the "holy"-theory is right. Does it mean "holy land" or
"land of the holies" (i.e. heligo ---> Genitive Plural) ?

Gued gaon,

Jan Strunk
strunk at linguistics.ruhr-uni-bochum.de

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From: <burgdal32 at mac.com>
Subject: LL-L "Names" 2002.02.20 (05) [E]

> From: Helge Tietz <helgetietz at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Heligoland
>
> Dear Lowlanders,
>
> I am wondering where the English name of the Frisian
> island Heligoland is derived from. In German it is
> called Helgoland, in the Frisian dialect of the island
> it is called Halleglun. From there it appears as if
> the English version could possibly be derived directly
> from the native Frisian name. The meaning of the name
> Heligoland is "the holy land", does anyone have any
> information ?
Dear Helge Tietz
Hel,helle,el,elle is also of old indo-european origine and means the
kingdom
of the dead. We can find it in the Edda (fafnismal, poem 10:once we will
part to the house of hel)
When we look at the map of Europe and the lowlandregions there are a
great
number of 'hel'-names:
Hälnis,Hellesylt Helleland, Helli, Ellon, Hellevad, Hellum, Helleback,
Helleryp ,Hellested, Helsingör, Hel, Heligoland, Hellwege, Helstof,
Hellberg, Helder, Hellevoetsluis, Ellecom, Helvoirt, Helmond,
Hellenthal,Hellimer, Hellemmes, Hellegat,Helleketel, Helfaut, Helladon,
Helmingham, Helvellyn, Ellesmere,Elton, Helford, Helston, Elboeuf,
Houlgate,
Elton , Helleville, St.-Hélier,Chenal de la Helle, Bro-Hellean, Hélooup,
Hellin, Hélette........(From Norway to Spain!)

Greatings,
Luc Vanbrabant

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From: "Wim" <wkv at home.nl>
Subject: LL-L "Names" 2002.02.22 (14) [E]

Hi,

About helgoland. The other islands are called hallingen isn't it...
hahl,
german dialect, and old nors hall (means slippery, muddy?
And in northern dutch hard  (caused by friezing) soil). Heilig holly ,
comes from filled with luck, lucky place?
Helgolands used to be two parts, a white rock, and the rock left over.
The
white rock was used for the cement industry, and is nowe a rocky bank,
on
zero levil.
Wim & Sonja Verdoold

wkv at home.nl

www.geocities.com/velikovski_project/

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Names

Wim & Sonja wrote (above):

> The other islands are called hallingen isn't it...

The tideflats islands are called _Halligen_ (plural of _Hallig_),
without the "n".

Erek Gass wrote:

> My sources have always related Heligo- (or Helgo-) land to the English
> "hallow".
> The island was once regarded as "holy" or "hallowed" land.  I'm astonished
> that this is even in doubt, but if someone has a better derivation, I'm
happy
> to hear about it!

I am not insisting that the "holy" claim is or is not justified, but I
retain a modicum of scepticism in the absence of actual proof.  So far I
have not encountered what I consider actual proof.  For my part, I am
surprised you are surprised about anyone doubting the claim.  What *are*
the sources you refer to, and on what do they base this claim?  Is there
any factual basis (such as archaological finds and/or contemporary
observers' reports), or is it perhaps only folk etymology that has been
passed down (also in writing) and elaborated on?

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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