LL-L "Pronouns" 2002.02.23 (02) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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 L O W L A N D S - L * 23.FEB.2002 (02) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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From: "Ted Harding" <Ted.Harding at nessie.mcc.ac.uk>
Subject: : It/That

Folks,
In the dialect of the area of East Anglia where I live
(North Cambridgeshire, West Norfolk, and probably further
afield), it is common to use "that" where "it" would
normally be used in standard English (i.e. with a purely
referential, and not an indicative or demonstrative function).

Examples:

Meeting someone in the local village street today:--
   "Wintry today!" said I.
   "That certainly is" said he.

Or:--
   "I called my dog into the house and that just sat
    there. That took no notice of me at all."

Question: Does the equivalent of "that" get used in
a similar way (instead of the equivalent of "it") in
other L-L langauges/dialects?

Maybe it's an archaic usage (the back of my mind suggests
I may have heard it in American speech as well).

Best wishes to all,
Ted.

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E-Mail: (Ted Harding) <Ted.Harding at nessie.mcc.ac.uk>
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Date: 23-Feb-02                                       Time: 14:17:00
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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Pronouns

Ted,

You wrote above:

> Question: Does the equivalent of "that" get used in
> a similar way (instead of the equivalent of "it") in
> other L-L langauges/dialects?

Yes, that (it?) is certainly the case in most Northern and Northeastern
dialects of Low Saxon (Low German).  While most Westphalian and
Eastphalian and also some Northern and Eastern dialects retain old _it_
or _et_ for 'it' and some also as the neuter-gender definite article, in
the dialects in question this pronoun has been replaced by _dat_, which
also still means neuter-gender, thus including impersonal, 'that'.

Thus, ...

>   "Wintry today!" said I.
>   "That certainly is" said he.

"Wint(e)rig vundaag' (~ hüüt)!" see(d') ik.
"Dat is dat wahrhaftig," see(d') he.

("That is that truly/indeed/certainly.")  The first _dat_ refers to the
condition (being wintry), and the second _dat_ replaces impersonal
_it_~_et_ (which could also stand for neuter-gender _Wedder_ 'weather',
i.e., _dat Wedder_ 'the weather').

So, wouldn't it be "That it certainly is" in many dialects of England?

>   "I called my dog into the house and that just sat
>   there. That took no notice of me at all."

This doesn't work with _Hund_ 'dog' because it has masculine gender and
thus has the definite article _de_ ([dEI]) and is replaced by the
pronoun _he_ ([hEI]), emphatic ("the afore-mentioned") _de_ ([dEI]);
thus:

"Ik reep mien Hund, dat he in dat (~ 't) Huus trüggkamen schull, un he
(~ de) seet (~ satt) man bloots so daar.  He (~ de) keek man bloots so
an mi vörbi."

("I called my dog that he schould come back into the house, and he (~
that) sat only there like that. He (~ that) looked only past me like
that.")

If you replace _Hund_ 'dog' with a neuter-gender noun, like _Kind_
'child', which takes _dat_ as definite article, you'll get ...

"Ik reep mien Kind, dat dat in dat (~ 't) Huus trüggkamen schull, un dat
seet (~ satt) man bloots so daar.  Dat keek man bloots so an mi vörbi."

(Instead of _... keek man bloots so an mi vörbi_ you could also say _...
harr mi gaarnich up de Tell_ "did not have me on the bill/tab/account at
all," implying "acted as though I didn't exist.")

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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