LL-L "Morphology" 2002.02.24 (09) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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 L O W L A N D S - L * 24.FEB.2002 (09) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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From: Sandy Fleming [sandy at scotstext.org]
Subject: "Morphology"

> From: "John M. Tait" <jmtait at wirhoose.co.uk>
> Subject: LL-L "Morphology" 2002.02.21 (07) [E]
>
> type. But _gotten_ also occurs in Scots, though not in Scottish English.
> I
> noticed Sandy using it in one of his English postings in another thread,
> and as I suppose he does not use this in his standard English, I took it
> to
> be some sort of (perhaps unconscious) recognition of this common feature
> of
> Scots and American English.
>
> Richt, Sandy??

Yiblins!  :)

Since I spent my childhood speaking Scots and only started
using English in earnest in Wales, I don't really know
Scottish English.

I think you have a point, though. I probably saw "gotten" in
American English and so didn't recognise it as a Scotticism
and didn't realise it needed purged (or do I mean "purging"? :)

Sandy
http://scotstext.org
A dinna dout him, for he says that he
On nae accoont wad ever tell a lee.
                          - C.W.Wade,
                    'The Adventures o McNab'
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From: "Ian James Parsley (Laptop)" <parsleyij at yahoo.com>
Subject: LL-L "Morphology" 2002.02.24 (03) [E]

John,

'Gotten' is certainly creeping *back* into English-English. 'Some
place',
however, was plain wrong. For some other real disasters of this ilk,
listen
to Elaine in Frasier!

Ian James Parsley.

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From: "Ian James Parsley (Laptop)" <parsleyij at yahoo.com>
Subject: LL-L "Morphology" 2002.02.22 (13) [E]

Erek,

It is perfectly normal for strong verbs to become weak, of course. My
own
studies showed over 700 strong verbs in Old High German, reduced to
around
160 in the modern language. Standard British English has over 200 still,
Scots probably considerably fewer (I have collected 89 in Ulster, but
there
are almost certainly more). Scandinavian languages also seem to have
fewer,
possibly below 100.

There is also this element about 'catched' as well - I wouldn't be
surprised
if it pops up in regional dialects in England too. There is probably a
pattern. We learn some of the most common strong (or indeed simply
irregular) verbs early in life ('to be', 'to have', 'to break'), but
others,
such as 'to catch' and 'to teach' often come later. I have heard many
three
or four-year-olds say 'catched' or 'teached' - but 'haved' or 'beed'
would
be very unusual.

All the best,
Ian James Parsley.

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Morphology

Ian, Erek, Lowlanders,

There is a list of the basic (i.e., non-compounded) strong verbs at this
site of mine:
http://www.geocities.com/sassisch/rhahn/low-saxon/

You will find them under "Verbs" and "Conjugation of Strong Verbs":

English:
http://www.geocities.com/sassisch/rhahn/low-saxon/strong_verbs.htm

German:
http://www.geocities.com/sassisch/rhahn/low-saxon/starke_verben.htm

I have not yet counted them.

As indicated, a small number of these can also be treated as weak verbs.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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