LL-L "Etymology" 2002.01.30 (02) [E/S]

[Lowlands-L]

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 L O W L A N D S - L * 30.JAN.2002 (02) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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 A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian L=Limburgish
 LS=Low Saxon (Low German) S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic Z=Zeelandic (Zeeuws)
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From: "Andy Eagle" <andy at scots-online.org>
Subject: "Etymology" [E/S]

R. F. Hahn speirt:

> Tom's posting under "Remedies" just now (mentioning the Scots chant
> _Shoogarally wa'er, black uz the lum_ 'Shuragelly water, black as the
> chimney') reminded me of a question I have long wanted to ask: What is the
> origin of Scots _lum_ 'chimney'?  Another question: Is it related to an
older
> English word that came to be replaced by _chimney_ (< Middle English
> _chimenê_, etc., < Old French _OF cheminée_ < Latin _caminata_)?

Auld Scots lumb fae Earlier lumbe "a roof opening" o obscure oreegin.

Andy Eagle

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From: Sandy Fleming [sandy at scotstext.org]
Subject: "Etymology"

> From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Etymology
>
> Tom's posting under "Remedies" just now (mentioning the Scots chant
> _Shoogarally wa'er, black uz the lum_ 'Shuragelly water, black as the
> chimney') reminded me of a question I have long wanted to ask: What is the
> origin of Scots _lum_ 'chimney'?  Another question: Is it related
> to an older
> English word that came to be replaced by _chimney_ (< Middle English
> _chimen_, etc., < Old French _OF chemine_ < Latin _caminata_)?
>
> Regairds, an lang may yer lum reek!

Thanks, Ron & others for these "memories" of sugarelly water -
though for me they're merely second-hand memories (unless I
want to try making some now...!). Tom's description has jogged
one further memory of a great uncle asking me if I ever made it,
then explaining how it was made, and laughing about how much
effort it took to make it into a worthwhile drink. As for cold
cures, older people always recommended barley sugar for us -
which does have a reasonably soothing effect for coughs, I think.

Anyway, to address the topic in hand, the SND states that "lum"
is from Old Scots "lumb", a roof opening, and that it is "of
obscure origin". However, Y Geiriadur Mawr, the popular
Welsh-English dictionary, lists the archaic Welsh word "llumon"
as meaning a chimney. So it may be that "lum" was originally
Brythonic, with the "b" of "lumb" being inserted in much the
same way as in the Welsh -> English borrowing cwm -> coomb.

Sandy
http://scotstext.org
A dinna dout him, for he says that he
On nae accoont wad ever tell a lee.
                          - C.W.Wade,
                    'The Adventures o McNab'
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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

Thanks for the info (above), Andy and Sandy!

Of course, this raises the question if there is a link between Scots _lum_,
Welsh _llumon_ ("roof opening" =) 'chimney' and Latin _lumen_ 'opening',
'light' (i.e., an opening through which daylight is seen, > _lumin-_ as in
_luminous_, _luminescence_, etc.).

Sandy:
> As for cold
> cures, older people always recommended barley sugar for us -
> which does have a reasonably soothing effect for coughs, I think.

I could do with "a right gude-willie-waught" of that right now.  This cold or
flu bug is going around here and started creeping up on me yesterday ...
Yikes!

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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