LL-L "History" 2002.07.15 (02) [A/D/E]
Lowlands-L
sassisch at yahoo.com
Mon Jul 15 17:23:29 UTC 2002
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L O W L A N D S - L * 15.JUL.2002 (02) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian L=Limburgish
LS=Low Saxon (Low German) S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic Z=Zeelandic (Zeeuws)
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From: Pat Reynolds <pat at caerlas.demon.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "History" 2002.07.13 (01) [A/E]
>Does anyone know more about this subject? I always thought they were
>French Calvinists, but I know nothing of Hugenots who fleed to South
>Africa.
>
You are correct that they were French protestants. They were expelled
from France by the Edict of Nantes in 1688. Some of those who went to
the Low Countries emigrated the various Dutch colonies in North and
South America, and Africa. There had been a tradition of Huguenots
moving to Dutch colonies before the expulsion. They also came to England
and to English colonies.
Some went to the Cape and settled, principally along the Berg river, in
the Drakenstein valley and French Hoek (Walton, Homesteads and Villages
of South Africa, 1952, 3). In 1689 180 French refugees were settled in
the Stellenbosch (Davenport, South Africa: A Modern History, 1991, 20).
Walton ascribes a change in architecture and other material culture in
the Cape colony to the impact of the French.
At this period of nation-building, any use of terms such as 'Dutch',
'French' and 'English' needs to be done with caution
Best wishes to all (especially those I owe emails to!)
Pat
Pat Reynolds
research student, department of archaeology, university of york
--
Pat Reynolds
pat at caerlas.demon.co.uk
"It might look a bit messy now, but just you come back in 500 years
time"
(T. Pratchett)
----------
From: "Wim Verdoold" <wkv at home.nl>
Subject: LL-L "History" 2002.07.14 (03) [A/E]
About the hugenotes.
>From wim verdoold.
W!M wkv at home.nl.
Hi!
Not only did these hugenotes, go to south Africa... They also found jobs
in
New Amsterdam, (North America), as they were often highly skilled , with
the
Dutch Westindische Compagnie.
They had there shops in a street called after them, de Waalenstraat.
(Walen, are "welsch", or walons, = kelts = frenshmen. In Dutch).
The street is still there, it has still shops in it. ( The new York
Stock
exchange is one of them).
Wim.
----------
From: "Marco Evenhuis" <evenhuis at zeelandnet.nl>
Subject: LL-L "History" 2002.07.14 (03) [A/E]
Erek Gass wrote:
> The Netherlands received some of the Hugenots, and I understand some
> actually went almost directly from France to ships going to South Africa
> from the Netherlands.
Some Hugenots? I think there were quite a lot.
Especially here in Zeeland, there are numerous
French family-names that almost all derive from
Hugenots:
Allard (Allaert), Becu, Dusardijn, Frelier, Le Grand,
De Hullu, Neuféglise, Pattist, Risseeuw, Poissonier,
de Ligny, de Maillie, Luteijn, Provoost, Passenier,
Tavenier, Verton, Baljé, Cevaal, Bommeljé, Oreel,
Mesu, Sohier, Midavaine...
After the Edict of Nantes (1685), first protestants
from Lille and Calais came to Zeeland, later people
from Orléans and from the Champagne-area. Finally
some smaller groups from Saint Quentin arrived in
1770.
Most people of Hugenot-descent still now their
French background. In Middelburg, there is still one
church where the services take place in French (l'Église
Wallonne - de Waalse Kerk). But French as a living
language died out some 150 years ago.
Elsie Zinsser schreef:
> Ek dink dat die Afrikaanse bry-R van
> die
> Franse af kom! Byvoorbeeld: Malmesbu{rh}ie se boe{rh}e eet b{rh}uin
> b{rh}ood!
Als die 'bry-R' hetzelfde is als de Nederlandse 'gebrouwde
r', dan is de afkomst ervan waarschijnlijk net zo onduidelijk.
Sommigen houden het inderdaad op Franse invloed (Frans
was erg populair in kringen van de hogere burgerij in de 18e
en 19e eeuw; dat zou verklaren waarom deze 'huig-r' vooral in
de steden voorkomt).
Het is in elk geval opvallend op hoeveel plaatsen in de mond-
holte de r in het Nederlands gemaakt kan worden. De meeste
mensen hebben een scherp r, die gemaakt wordt door de tong-
punt te laten rollen. Maar er zijn er ook die van de r een soort
klinker maken: eer klinkt dan als ee-ah. Dan is er ook nog de
ch-uitspraak (ee-ch), de j (eej) en een groeiende groep mensen
spreekt de r niet eens meer uit... Welke r je gebruikt, is eerder
afhankelijk van sociale dan van geografische factoren.
In Zeeland is het een stuk eenvoudiger: een aantal stadsdialecten
(Middelburgs, Vlissings, Souburgs en Zierikzees) hebben een
huig-r, terwijl de rest de scherpe tongpunt-r gebruikt.
Groetenisse,
Marco EvenhuisErek Gass wrote:
> The Netherlands received some of the Hugenots, and I understand some
> actually went almost directly from France to ships going to South Africa
> from the Netherlands.
Some Hugenots? I think there were quite a lot.
Especially here in Zeeland, there are numerous
French family-names that almost all derive from
Hugenots:
Allard (Allaert), Becu, Dusardijn, Frelier, Le Grand,
De Hullu, Neuféglise, Pattist, Risseeuw, Poissonier,
de Ligny, de Maillie, Luteijn, Provoost, Passenier,
Tavenier, Verton, Baljé, Cevaal, Bommeljé, Oreel,
Mesu, Sohier, Midavaine...
After the Edict of Nantes (1685), first protestants
from Lille and Calais came to Zeeland, later people
from Orléans and from the Champagne-area. Finally
some smaller groups from Saint Quentin arrived in
1770.
Most people of Hugenot-descent still now their
French background. In Middelburg, there is still one
church where the services take place in French (l'Église
Wallonne - de Waalse Kerk). But French as a living
language died out some 150 years ago.
Elsie Zinsser schreef:
> Ek dink dat die Afrikaanse bry-R van
> die
> Franse af kom! Byvoorbeeld: Malmesbu{rh}ie se boe{rh}e eet b{rh}uin
> b{rh}ood!
Als die 'bry-R' hetzelfde is als de Nederlandse 'gebrouwde
r', dan is de afkomst ervan waarschijnlijk net zo onduidelijk.
Sommigen houden het inderdaad op Franse invloed (Frans
was erg populair in kringen van de hogere burgerij in de 18e
en 19e eeuw; dat zou verklaren waarom deze 'huig-r' vooral in
de steden voorkomt).
Het is in elk geval opvallend op hoeveel plaatsen in de mond-
holte de r in het Nederlands gemaakt kan worden. De meeste
mensen hebben een scherp r, die gemaakt wordt door de tong-
punt te laten rollen. Maar er zijn er ook die van de r een soort
klinker maken: eer klinkt dan als ee-ah. Dan is er ook nog de
ch-uitspraak (ee-ch), de j (eej) en een groeiende groep mensen
spreekt de r niet eens meer uit... Welke r je gebruikt, is eerder
afhankelijk van sociale dan van geografische factoren.
In Zeeland is het een stuk eenvoudiger: een aantal stadsdialecten
(Middelburgs, Vlissings, Souburgs en Zierikzees) hebben een
huig-r, terwijl de rest de scherpe tongpunt-r gebruikt.
Groetenisse,
Marco Evenhuis
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