LL-L "Language varieties" 2002.06.20 (10) [E]

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From: "Andy Eagle" <andy at scots-online.org>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2002.06.20 (03) [E]

Glenn Simpson wrote:
> Subject: Origins of Anglian-Northumbrian language
>
> Dear all
>
> Ron suggested I ask the list which of the lowland languages was most
> closely aligned to Anglian-Northumbrian, i.e. the language spoken in the
> North East English counties of Northumberland and Durham (similar to
> Scots). I had assumed it was one of the Frisian dialects but this may
> not
> be the case. History tell us that Northumbrian is supposedly derived
> from
> language of the Angles. I wonder to which modern language / ethnic group
> the Angles are most closely related to on the continent? And from which
> part of Low Countries did the Angles come from? There is a debate in my
> region over whether the Anglian influence on the Northumbrian language
> is
> really that strong.

Surely the most closely related language is Scots?

Taken from http://www.scots-online.org/grammar/whits.htm

"These people were the descendants of the Angles who had settled in the
north of England. The Saxons on the other hand tended to settle in the
south. The (Anglo-Saxon) Dialect spoken by the Angles later became
infused
with a large amount of Norse. This was brought in by Viking incursions
and
settlements in Northumbria. This language called Inglis was spoken
between
the river Humber in the south and the river Forth in the north."

These (Anglos) folk came from around Denmark and the mouth of the River
Elbe / Elve between the 4th and 6th centuries AD.

Also see  http://www.lallans.co.uk/eng.html

The sources are from the Scots point of view but are relevant in that
Scots
and Northumbrian share a common ancestor.

Andy Eagle

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Language varieties

Andy wrote (above):

> These (Anglos) folk came from around Denmark and the mouth of the
> River Elbe / Elve between the 4th and 6th centuries AD.

There is still a region (Low Saxon _Landschupp_, German _Landschaft_
"landscape") called _Angeln_ (= Anglia) in Northern Germany.  Its
boundaries roughly coincide with a triangle at whose points are the
cities Flensborg/Flensburg, Slesvig/Schleswig and Kappeln, which can
also be described as situated between Flensborg/Flensburg (on the Danish
border), River Slie/Schlei and the Baltic Sea coast.  In other words,
Anglia is situated much farther north than the mouth of River
Elv'/Elbe/Laba, which was the home of Saxons and, in at least two
immigration waves along the North Sea coast, Frisians.  My mental
picture has always been that the Jutes (Euts, who came to be concquered
and absorbed by the Danes) lived in the north (today's Jutland,
Denmark), the Angles just south of them (see above), and the Saxons
south of the Angles, gradually spreading southward from Northern Saxony
(North Albingiers north of River Elbe) in a fan-like fashion and
creating various Saxon tribes (Engers south, Westphalians southwest,
Eastphalians southeast, still representing Low Saxon (Low German)
dialect groups, former Engria being a transitional area between the two
"...phalias").  The Angels then came under Saxon domination in the
region Vegria (Wegrien).

More information (in German):
http://www.marschundfoerde.de/artikel/angeln.html
http://www.welt.de/daten/2001/05/11/0511rw252787.htx
http://www.murzi.de/Landschaft_Angeln/landschaft_angeln.html

Also the maps here (in German and Dutch):
http://home.wxs.nl/~marcel.tettero/Sachsen.html
http://www.tpo.de/deutsch/ostfalen.htm

However, lately people have been saying that other tribes, including
Franconian and Rhenish ones, participated in the Germanic colonization
of Britain (assumedly from the Frisian-speaking coast), and most of them
do not mention the Frisians, which seems odd considering that English is
traditionally assigned to an "Anglo-Frisian" sub-branch of West
Germanic, but the Germanic settlers in Britain referred to themselves as
Saxons and Angles.  How can the close relationship between English (and
Scots and Northumbrian) and Frisian be reconciled with the ethnonyms,
and why are Frisians hardly ever mentioned?  Let's be wild and speculate
that those who strongly Frisianized the Early English language were
mostly Frisian women (attached to predominantly male Saxons, Angels and
Jutes en route from their native places to Britain).  Has any of this
ever been explored?

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

----------

From: Sandy Fleming [sandy at scotstext.org]
Subject: "Legends"

>> From: "Wim" <wkv at home.nl>
>> Subject: LL-L "Lexicon" 2002.06.19 (05) [E/LS]

>> I'm told the word came into our dialects with the Russian horses that
were
>> imported in the last century, is there any treuth to this story??

There's an interesting Somerset story about an imported horse,
which I've been preparing for web presentation. It's in Somerset
(or "Zummerzet") dialect. I'll just put it here with some of my
notes so you can read it, because I really don't know if I'll
ever find time for non-Scots Web presentations!

Note particularly the use of apparent Americanisms (hoss, fall,
bust, hollied), which actually originated in the South West of
England and probably went over with the Mayflower! Note also
the use of "thee" in all cases, much like American Quakers.

(Notes and glossary:

Zummet, volly (something, follow): note the use of 'z' and
'v' at the beginning of words, where standardised English
would have 's' and 'f'. This tends to occur in words of
Anglo-Saxon derivation, not in words from French or Latin.

A 'ud: 'he would'. Rules for pronouns are complex, but I've
put a summary at the end of the story.

Fall (autumn) is distinguished from 'vall', meaning to topple.

Mid: 'might'
Girt: 'great'.
En: 'him'.
Ben't: 'be not'.
Burches: 'breeches'.
Hoss: 'horse'.
Wold: 'old'.
Handy: 'nearby'.
Midbe: 'maybe'.
Dost zay: 'do you say'.
Sim t' I: 'it seems to me'.
Athirt: 'across'.
Thik: 'this'.
Droo: 'through'.
Skeer-devil: 'a swift'.
Zoo: 'so' (Old Levy's speech is more archaic than the farmer's,
      which is more archaic than the narrator's).
Croopy: 'crouch'.
O'n: 'of him'.
Ben't 'ee?: 'aren't you?'
Wordle: 'world'.
I really sim: 'It really seems to me'.
Ees: 'yes'.
Plimmed: 'swollen'.
Bu'st: 'burst'.
Rafted: 'maddened'.
Shard: 'gap', 'fragment'.
Gie: 'give'.
Vier: 'fire'; midden: 'might not'.
Hollied: 'yelled'.
Stud: 'study' (transitive). Note that deleting a "-y" from the
      end of a verb produces the transitive form.
Hoss-stinger: 'dragonfly'.
Quirk: 'grunt'.
Zwodder: 'dream', 'doze'.
Sprack: 'quick'.
T'othermy: 'the others'.
Fess: 'proud'.
Whicker: 'whinny'.
Capical: 'capital'.
Ba'dy: 'bawdy'.
A-strout: 'outspread'.

And here's the story itself:

THE STORY OF VALL-TEACHER

Co! A terrible one for a horse! I should zay that Farmer Pomeroy is
almost so much tookt up wi' horses as Solomon Viney wi' pigs. In his
younger days there wur no more dare-devil horseman in the country than
Farmer John Pomeroy, and his talent for horses and his knowledge of
horseflesh wur zummet wonderful to behold. Out-and-out the best rider
that did volly either the Cattistock or the Blackmore Vale; there, the
young Farmer wur in a class all to his ownzelf!

Not a horse-zale or fair of any note in the two counties but what Farmer
wur on the spot, most often with a string of horses; and always ready,
het or wet, for a deal or a chop. Bridgwater, Beam'ster, Dorchester,
Pack-Monday, Tor Hill; no matter what the point of the compass, Farmer
could be counted upon to appear for the fair; and if 'twur poorish trade
round-about, so often as not a 'ud strike away into Devon, or Wiltshire,
or even right up into Hampshire, in search o' zummet better.

So 'tis but natural that all sorts of tales should go the rounds about
Farmer and his horses; and one there is that no man can afford to miss.

One fall, a good many year agone, Farmer rode away to Pack-Monday Fair
'pon a smart upstanding bay cob going by the name of Harkaway: rising
three, a wur, so far as I can call to mind, and had a terrible tender
mouth. Trade had been slack for some time a-past, so Farmer vowed and
swore that come what mid, much as a loved the horse, he 'ud chop en away
and come back wi' a fat pocket to boot. So, as you can understand, the
parish wur agog to zee what should come o't.

Farmer started off the minute morning milking wur done, so as to be back
in good time to zee to the cows in the afternoon.

Sure enough, about three o'clock Farmer dashed up through parish 'pon a
girt powerful raw-boned black horse, and drew rein in front of the 'Pure
Drop.' In next to no time, you mid be sure, Farmer had the makings of a
tidy liddle crowd about en.

"A glorious day, my sonnies!" cried Farmer, calling for a drop o't.
"Chopped Harkaway for thease, lookyzee; and drawed-well, I ben't apt to
boast, so I won't zay how much! " And Farmer tapped his burches-pocket.

"Do look a good enough hoss," drawled the wold Levi Viney-father to
Solomon that is now-as a edged up handy to run his eye over'n. "Run a
liddle to bone, midbe."

"Run, dost zay!" said Farmer, looking down from his saddle into their
faces. " Run! I tell 'ee, 'run' is no word for thease hoss! A do sail! A
do vlit droo the air like a very skeer-devil! In fact, the speed o'n is
zummet remarkable.

There, Farmer looked the picture of content, as a took a pull at the
cup.

"Jump, can ur, Farmer? " enquired the wold Levi, not willing to gie in
so easy-like. "Sim t' I, 'tidden much spring about en."

Jump! " cried Farmer, opening his eyes so wide as saucers " Jump, di'st
ray! Co! " He reached down his cup to Levi. Here, hold thease cup."

Farmer gied the horse a liddle "Chik!" touched en with his knee, and in
a flash he wur athirt road and up over the vive-bar gate into Jeremy
Creed's paddock, like a sky-rocket. Once into paddock, Farmer started to
gie a regular exhibition wi' en: lifted en over hedge into Farmer
Tazwell's Ten-acres; rent en all round ground like a streak o' greased
lightning then back over hedge into paddock and dazzed if a didden wind
up by clearing the river into Farmer Perrott's Daisymead, and then back
into paddock! There, everybody did allow 'twur better than any Horse
Show or Point-to-Point that had ever been zeed thik way; and by the time
Farmer wur droo wi' it, most o' the volk in parish wur to be found in
Jeremy Creed's paddock. If Jeremy had only had the wit to charge 'em
zixpence a head gate-money, a 'ud ha' made the price of a tidy calf out
o't.

'Tis a horse from the French war, lookyzee," said Farmer, cantering back
and pulling up among the volk. "In the cavalry, a wur; and if you do
look at his off vore-voot, down handy the fetlock, you'll zee the wale
of a Prussian zword-cut."

Zoo 'tis, souls," said the wold Levi, who wur of a doubting turn o' mind
and croopied down to look. "Dazzed if the man don't speak truth! The
wale is plain for all to zee."

"Thik wale," Farmer went on, "is his onlyblemish, and the hoss is in his
prime. 'Vull o' spirit. Gie en a yew oats, and there'll be no holding
o'n."

There, Farmer had a liddle to zay about thik horse; and by the time a
wur droo wi' his second cup the parish knowed a good deal about en.

But not all. Oh no, not all.

Vall-teacher is the name o'n," said Farmer. "That's what a's called in
his own native tongue. And if a idden a regular skimmer, then dog bite
me! Shot up out o' Sherborne and down over Whitepost Hill without
turning a hair!"

But Farmer's vain-glory wur foreordained to come to a sudden end. There
wur a most curious experience in store for en, if a had but knowed, as a
zot there up in zaddle, spouting to the parish. To put it into a
parable, the train wur there, all ready laid, and only waiting for the
spark. And the spark wur put to the train all through the wold Levi
Viney.

Presently, in the midst of his zong o' praise, Farmer caught sight o'
the wold Levi, staring hard at Vall-teacher's hind legs.

"Well, Levi," he asked, " not satisfied yet? Terrible hard to please,
ben't 'ee?"

"Farmer," said Levi, " 'tis the last thing in the wordle I should wish
to do, to pull another man's hoss to pieces. Midbe I do make a
mistake--'tis to be hoped I do--but I really sim--" The wold Levi stood
back and shut one eye to make sure. "Ees, I really sim thik hoss is just
the leastest bit inclined to be bend-hocked."

Now that roused Farmer, being a kind of reflection on his judgment. So
Farmer got so red as a turkey-cock; plimmed all out like a cat in a
corner; and bu'st off at Levi like a clap o' thunder:

"Bah!" a roared out, so mad as a rafted bull.

Midbe you've noticed that Farmer, in his talk, do stop his shards and
vill out his meanings wi' two words, special to hiszelf: "Pooh!" and
"Bah!" Well, a do use 'em in much the same way as another 'ud use a good
round cuss-word, especially when his feelings be worked up.

So out comes Farmer wi' a "Bah! " that could be heard all up droo
parish. He had it in mind to zay a good deal more-- but Vall-teacher
didden gie en time.

The moment the word wur out of his mouth, the horse valled down like a
stone, zame as if a'd been shot!

Co! Then there wur a tidy upstore! "Run for doctor!" cried one. "Shoot
the hoss!" called another. "Vetch a vet!" hollied a third. And 't wur
told afterwards that one or two did screech out "Vier!" and run for
buckets of water. But that midden he altogether true.

In the thick of it all, the wold Levi stood out and took command.
"Zomebody zit 'pon his head, and keep en down," a said, "while we do
pull Farmer off."

"So the wold Mother Pamela Tucker, the heftiest 'ooman in parish, wur
called upon to quot down 'pon Vall-Teacher's head, while a vew o'm did
help Farmer out.

When they wur satisfied that Farmer wur none the worse for the fall, the
parish formed a ring round the horse, wi' the wold Mother Pamela Tucker
'pen his head, and started to stud out what to do next.

"'Tis a stroke!" said one.

"Or a terrible strong hoss-stinger!" said another.

"'Tis my belief a's witched!" said a third.

And some thought the horse wur dead; although others vowed that when
Mother Tucker plumped down upon en a gied just the leastest sign of a
quirk. So most volk came round to think that 'twur a kind o' zwodder
that had suddenly come over en-- zummet in the line of a fainting-fit,
lookyzee. Then one or two o'm got astride en, and started to rap, and
pinch, and poke; and 'twurden long before all the parish wur doing
zummet or other wi' en.

And the wold horse bode quiet droo it all: didden so much as whisk his
tail.

Then, as luck would have it, the wold Levi broke the spell. "'Tis my
belief," a said, in his slow, drawling way, "that the hoss is
chink-backed."

Now that, when you do come to think it over, wur so good as calling
Farmer a fool, for no man that would go and buy a chink-backed horse
could be much better.

So Farmer went just about mad wi' Levi.

"You girt, dathering, nog-headed gnaw-pwost, you!" blared Farmer, wi' a
voice like a vog-horn. Dost think I can't tell a chink-backed boss when
do zee en!" Farmer shook up his vist at en, and took a deep breath.

"Pooh! " he let out, taking a step towards Levi, "if doessen--"

But Farmer never finished his threat; for no sooner wur thik "Pooh!" out
of his mouth than up sprang Vall-teacher, so sprack and nimble as ever,
sending the wold Mother Pamela Tucker and a regular shower o' t'othermy
vlying off in all directions. Brushed 'em off like a zwarm o' vlies.
Then a gied a liddle whicker, and looked across at Farmer as if he'd
a--done zummet to be terrible fess about.

"Dear me! dear me! What a remarkable occurrence!" came a voice from
behind; and, turning round, the parish zeed that Pa'son had come on the
scene and witnessed the last act o't.

"I hope and trust," said Pa'son, in his mild way, "that no cruelty is
being practised upon this poor animal."

At that, Farmer Pomeroy up and explained the whole matter to Pa'son,
right from the first going-off, and assured en that if any cruelty had
been practised 't had been upon he his ownzelf when his leg wur pinned
to the ground in under the horse.

"What did you state to be the name of this remarkable animal?" asked
Pa'son, when Farmer had done.

"Vall-teacher," said Farmer. "That wur the name the man gied en. 'Tis in
the native tongue of the hoss, to be sure."

"Ah yes," said Pa'son. "Vall-teacher-----Voltizhoor--which signifies,
translated into the English tongue: a leaper, a jumper."

"And a capical name vor'n! " said Farmer, slapping his hand upon his
thigh. "Capical!" he shouted, as all the horse's good points came back
to mind. "Bah!" he bu'st out. "There idden--"

But Farmer's loud boast wur nipped in the bud. Without the ghost of a
warning, Vall-teacher dropped hike stone, and lay like a hog 'pon the
grass.

" Dear me!" said Pa'son, hopping back in a fright. "What a remarkable--I
might indeed say, extraordinary--animal!"

"Ezackly how a wur tookt afore, Pa'son." explained Farmer, wi' the
parish close-handy, looking and listening, all eyes and ears. "Levi
here, see, must needs try to pick a fault in the hoss and say a wur
bend-hocked; and I, a bit rafted-like, as you mid well think, turned to
en and zaid: "Bah! Levi." "Bah! Levi," I zaid, meaning to go on and zay:
"What dost thee know about a hoss!" and midbe a vew more thoughts o' the
zame kind--when, at the very vust word, down goes the hoss like a
stone!"

"Ah!" said Pa'son, pricking up his ears. "You said 'Bah!' and the horse
collapsed?"

"Valled like a stone! Ees, Pa'son."

"Yes, yes," said Pa'son, "the horse fell like a stone. But when did it
fall like a stone? It fell like a stone as you uttered the word 'Bah!':
is that not so?"

"Ees, ees, Pa'son," agreed Farmer, reddening up a liddle. "A harmless
enough word. No harm meaned nor intended by the word, Pa'son. Not a
ba'dy word in any sense of the term. A good, harmless, useful word."

"Quite so," said Pa'son. "But the word, although inoffensive, as you
suggest, possesses a significance-- a meaning--of which you are
unaware."

"Then I shall be glad to apologise, Pa'son," said Farmer, in his manly,
outspoken way. "No harm at all."

But Pa'son had his eyes fixed 'pon the horse. "I am now about to call
upon this animal--known to us under the name of Voltizhoor-to arise,"
said Pa'son, speaking in the calm, level tone a did keep in the ordinary
way for numbers of hymns and notices of mothers' meetings.

Co! At that, the parish stared at Pa'son in just about the same way as
if a'd said a wur going to call for a earthquake or order a
thunderstorm! A whindling liddle thing of a man like that, not able to
tell a back-strap from a blindhalter, to talk about calling upon
Vall-teacher to arise! Why, the man wur a sight wuss off than Balaam!

Pa'son stepped up handy the horse's head, took a goodish breath, and
hollied out one word: "Pooh!"

In a twinkling, wold Vall-teacher hopped up, gied a liddle whicker,
whisked his tail, and cast a pleased look round at the gathering!

"Bah!" screeched out Pa'son; and the horse went down like a house o'
cards, wi' his legs all a-strout.

"Pooh!" Up again, my sonnies, like a Jack-in-the-box!

Well, now, if parish didden begin to think that Pa'son had escaped from
a circus before a joined the Church! Pa'son looked round 'pon 'em all,
his eyes beaming and sparkling through his glasses.

"You observe," he said, "a striking proof of the correctness of my
deductions. The horse is French. It has been in the cavalry. It
collapsed at the command 'Bah!' which translated into our own tongue,
signifies 'Down!'; and at the ejaculation 'Pooh!', meaning 'Up!' or
'Arise!', the animal stood erect. Doubtlessly then, my friends, We see
before us a horse trained in accordance with certain usages of the
French cavalry, to lie down or remain erect at will."

Bezuggers, if Pa'son didden make a name for hiszelf out o' that! Church
packed every Zunday for weeks and weeks afterwards; not a seat to be had
anywhere, so I've heard more than one say. Volk called it a triumph of
scholarship and learning, that Pa'son should be able to stroll along in
his quiet, far-away manner and unmask a trick-horse that had puzzled the
wit of Farmer John Pomeroy and the whole parish to boot.

'Twur all glory for Pa'son, no doubt, but for Farmer John Pomeroy 'twur
liddle short of a misfortune to find that a coulden use his favourite
mild cuss-words--or ejaculations, as Pa'son called 'em--without running
the risk of a sudden upset, wi' his horse 'pon top o'n! Ees, in the end,
Farmer found that either Vall-teacher must go, or he must use
straight-out ba'dy words; and being a mild-mannered man, wi' a careful
upbringing, Farmer zold the horse.

Here's the pronoun table:

                      Subject         Subject       Object
                      statement       question

1st Pers. Sing.       I               I/us          I/us/me

2nd Pers. Sing.       thee            (thee)        thee/ee

3rd Pers. Sing. Masc. he/a            ur            en

3rd Pers. Sing. Fem.  she/ur          she/ur        ur/she

3rd Pers. Sing. Neut. he/she/a/it     en/ur/it      en/ur

1st Pers. Plural      we/us           we/us         we/us

2nd Pers. Plural      you             ee            ee

3rd Pers. Plural      they            em            em

Sandy
http://scotstext.org
A dinna dout him, for he says that he
On nae accoont wad ever tell a lee.
                          - C.W.Wade,
                    'The Adventures o McNab'

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