LL-L "Orthography" 2002.03.03 (08) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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 L O W L A N D S - L * 03.MAR.2002 (08) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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 A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian L=Limburgish
 LS=Low Saxon (Low German) S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic Z=Zeelandic (Zeeuws)
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From: Sandy Fleming [sandy at scotstext.org]
Subject: "Orthography"

> From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Orthography
>
> This is so weird, considering that I can read your and everyone else's.
> Anyway, instead of guessing you ought to check the posting in the
> archive:
> http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/lowlands-l.html
> Hopefully you will see the diacritics there or tinker with the decoding
> modes until you can.

I can't see them there either - I'll try those modes!

I also get this problem when Roger Thijs mails me - so it
may be something your and his mailers have in common. It
never seems to happen with anyone else, as far as I can
remember.

> What you've done in the meantime (above) is pretty much the way I would
> have gone myself, integrating English-type and traditional graphemes.
> I, as a non-Scots speaker, still feel fairly confident that I could read
> it out loud and would be understood by a Scots speaker.

That's a strange thing I noticed: the heavily diacritical
version is particularly easy to read - such a pity that
it's harder to type! If it could be typed easily then I'd
much prefer it to the diacritic-free version.

> > <a> /a:/ and /Q:/ (this merge aids writing, I think
> >                    - or /Q/ could be written <au>)
>
> I would definitely distinguish them unless they are allophones -- so <a>
> or <aa> vs <au> or <aw>.

Probably a good idea, but they almost are allophones in my
dialect, so I'll have to find out elsewhere how to spell
these words for a more general type of Scots (I believe it's
explained properly in some of John's and Andy's submissions
from earlier this year).

> > <eukh> /jux/, /jVx/ (diaphonemic)
> > <euk> /juk/, /jVk/ (diaphonemic)
>
> How about <iukh> and <iuk> instead (<i> being better for /j/ in my
> opinion)?

Well, I was just trying the traditional spellings where
possible, hence <eu> as in neuk, sheuch, deuk &c. I think
I'll try some versions of the macro with non-traditional
substitutions and see if anything better comes out. I'm
not particularly happy with the traditional <ou> and <ow>
either, in this sort of orthography. Perhaps <uu> and <ou>
respectively would be better. Or perhaps not! Diacritics
are still tempting!

Sandy
http://scotstext.org
A dinna dout him, for he says that he
On nae accoont wad ever tell a lee.
                          - C.W.Wade,
                    'The Adventures o McNab'
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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Orthography

Sandy,

> > archive:
> > http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/lowlands-l.html
> > Hopefully you will see the diacritics there or tinker with the decoding
> > modes until you can.
>
> I can't see them there either - I'll try those modes!

Yes, go for "Western European (Windows)" and install it in IE if it
doesn't show in the list of available modes already.

> That's a strange thing I noticed: the heavily diacritical
> version is particularly easy to read - such a pity that
> it's harder to type! If it could be typed easily then I'd
> much prefer it to the diacritic-free version.

> Diacritics
> are still tempting!

Well, well, Sandy!  You say "strange," and I say "but of cooourse!"  You
seem to have developed a real feel for the most intricate moves of the
Tango argentino!  ;)

I think the reason for greater ease of reading is that decoding digraphs
(unless they are double letters for length) is harder on the old brain,
and diacritics allow of preserving the visual grapheme-based
relationships between allographs.

Well, for now, you might like to try doing what I do with longer texts
in German, Low Saxon, Turkish, etc., when using an English keyboard:
temporarily use digraphs and later convert the text with an
inter-language-specific macro.

By the way, even if this kind of consistent orthography for Scots is not
generally accepted (soon), it would be absolutely terrific as a teaching
aid, namely as an auxiliary system for instance in textbooks or (given
the ease of converting with macros) for transliterations of literary
pieces such on ScotsText (http://scotstext.org).  This would be easier
for most learners than if you use IPA script.  I'm sure I am not the
only one who is interested in Scots and would love learn more of it,
beyond just reading it, and there are gezillions of people of Scottish
descent or with "scotophile" ("ecotophile"?) inclinations all over the
world who would have a go at learning Scots if it were made easier.
Perhaps over time the use of such an auxiliary orthography would even
convince speakers, readers and writers of Scots themselves of the
advantages of this type of system.

Regairds,
Reinhard/Ron

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