LL-L "Lexicon" 2002.11.09 (05) [E]

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 L O W L A N D S - L * 09.NOV.2002 (05) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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 A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
 L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic
               V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: Wim <wkv at home.nl>
Subject: LL-L "Lexicon" 2002.11.09 (03) [D/E]

Hi!

>From wim wkv at home.nl

There are more Dutch words in Japanese.

These were already mentioned:
(Japans:
biiroe (bier) - boeriki (blik) - gomoe (gom) - inki (inkt) - kampan
(campagne) - kiniine (kinine) - kohii (koffie) - koroekoe (kurk) - mesoe
(mes) - soepoitoe (spuit) - tarappoe (trap))

But don't forget - Oranda (Hollander, or Goldfish kind introduced from
China by the Dutch
And sarata- (sla)

About gomoe (gom).... the word also exists in Spanish, and I suppose in
Portuguese, so I wonder about that one.

Pan (Bread )  comes from Portuguese for sure.

Sayonara!

wim
[Wim Verdoold]

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From: j_thole at ftml.net <j_thole at ftml.net>
Subject: Dutch influences in Russia

Dear Reinhard and others,

You mentioned the influence of the Dutch shipbuilders on the Russian
language. But do you also know that there was a lot of trade between the
Netherlands and Russia in later times? An famous example of that are the
"Ruslui" from Vriezenveen (in Twente). Around 1800 they not only traded
with St. Petersburg, but also quite some Vriezenveners moved to that
city. Most of them (more correctly, their offspring) returned to Twente
in 1917, the year of the revolution.

Johan (originating from Losser, in Twente)
[Johan Thole]

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Lexicon

Thanks for the feedback, folks.  Special thanks to Johan (above) and welcome
to List!

My question remains: if the words in question are indeed Dutch loans in
Russian, then why on earth would /st/ and /sp/ come out as /sht/ and /shp/
on the Russian side when Russian is quiet capable of rendering the clusters
/st/ and /sp/  as [st] and [sp] in native and other loanwords?  As far as I
know, Dutch has never had that type of pronunciation.  Could it be that it
is a Russian "over-correction" = misinterpretation as "German," given that
German has been one of the major foreign languages in Russia?  (In other
words, did Russians who knew German impose German pronunciation onto Dutch
loans?)

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

P.S.: Remember, folks: both first and last name in your postings, even if
not in the same place.  If you see a full or completed name in square
brackets, it was I who added it.

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