LL-L "Language learning" 2002.11.23 (05) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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 L O W L A N D S - L * 23.NOV.2002 (05) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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 A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
 L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic
               V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: Mathieu. van Woerkom <Mathieu.vanWoerkom at student.kun.nl>
Subject: Language learning

Brad wrote:

> On another note, but related to other discussion in this thread: When
> living in Amsterdam, there were a number of occasions when out with
> Dutch friends we were approached by people speaking to us in German,
> e.g. asking for directions.  It was always I who was left to
> communicate
> with these people, being abandoned by my Dutch friends, all of whom
> spoke far better German than I!  Not sure if this is a similar example
> of carrot and stick language policies or an indication of historical
> animosity of the Dutch towards Germans.

I'm afraid it's the latter one...somehow Germans are still not very liked
around here. I know tons of examples where Germans started asked something
in
German, and all Dutch around found that very rude. Maybe this is also the
case
with your Dutch friends refusing to answer in German.

regards,
Mathieu

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Language learning

Thanks, Mathieu.   I recognize that there is age-old resentment against
Germans in the Netherlands, going back to WW II, before that (justifiable)
fear of "pruusisch" might, all the way back to watching the ethnically and
linguistically closely related eastern Lowlands (now Northern Germany) being
gobbled up by Germany (which many North Germans also resented and some still
resent), and the "Dutch" barely holding on to Netherlandic independence.
Also, I recognize that, the more closely related neighboring peoples are
culturally and linguistically, the more the "smaller" ones of them want to
distance themself (as also seen in the case of Austria, Northern
Switzerland, Luxembourg, the Alsace and German-speaking Eastern Belgium
versus Germany), especially if the "big" one has been "naughty".  I
understand that in the times before proper and widely available English
teaching in Germany most German visitors to the Netherlands (and any other
country) did not know any foreign language, Dutch being taught only along
the German-Netherlands border.  I do still know some elderly Germans who do
not know English or any other foreign language, and some of them have
visited the Netherlands.  My father did not know English and was sent from
Northern Germany to work (in a German team) in the Netherlands.  He did try
to avoid speaking German, unless spoken to in German, so he used Low Saxon
(Low German), being in the (Saxon-speaking) Eastern Netherlands.  At least
he made an effort.  Some people thought that was all right, and they could
understand him well, while it made no difference to others and they treated
him rudely, even in a hostile manner.

However, I myself have no patience for younger Germans who *nowadays* go
around the Netherlands speaking German when they know at least some English,
especially if they don't even ask if people understand German.  That's very
arrogant and deserving of whatever comes their way (or doesn't come their
way).

Yet, there is another side to this.  The average German person, reading only
the _Bildzeitung_ and watching nothing more challenging on TV than the
occasional quiz show or _Schlagerparade_ or the European Song Competition,
is given the impression by the media that everyone in the Netherlands knows
German perfectly.  Bunches of show hosts and other types of entertainers
from the Netherlands work in the German media and speak German perfectly
well, albeit with an "accent."  Dutch people interviewed by German news
teams virtually always speak German.  (This may be because most just do or
because the reporters select them.)  In addition, there are lots of touristy
places in the Netherlands, especially near the German border, that cater to
Germans, are German-speaking, and advertise in German, and this reinforces
this unfortunate, ill-informed impression that all "Dutch" people speak
German and don't mind doing so.

Hopefully, this ugly thing will go away with time.  The fact that it still
exists makes me doubly sad in the case of North Germans, because originally
there was a language continuum between them and their neighbors to the west.
Alas, German only having been pushed down our throats and the language of
the land, being the closest related to Dutch, having been left to languish
has created a divide where there used to be none.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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