LL-L "Language varieties" 2002.10.13 (10) [E]

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 L O W L A N D S - L * 13.OCT.2002 (10) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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From: Kate Gladstone <kate at global2000.net>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2002.10.13 (08) [E]

Thomas writes:

> [because] Yiddish was written in the Hebrew alphabet.  This
> means that the umlaut sounds had to be dropped because no Hebrew symbol
for
> these sounds exists.

Yet Yiddish has other sounds for which no Hebrew letter exists -

e.g., /zh/ - voiced version of /sh/ -
Yiddish represents this with the Hebrew letter for /z/
followed by the Hebrew letter for /sh/ ,

so, if the umlaut-sounds had existed in Yiddish, Yiddish-speakers/-writers
could & probably would have found a way to represent these as well.

When languages remove/change sounds, they usually *don't* do this for the
sake of making the language match the writing-system (otherwise, English
would
have dropped most of its vowels by now, because English has many more
vowel-sounds
than vowel-letters).

In any case, don't other related languages exist (other varieties/close
relatives
of German) that also lack umlaut-sounds ... yet that use the Roman alphabet
and have never used any other? If so, then tracing the lack of umlauts in
one of these languages to Hebrew spelling (an explanation that cannot apply
to the others) seems (to me) rather implausible and unconvincing.

Yours for better letters,
Kate Gladstone - Handwriting Repair
kate at global2000.net
http://www.global2000.net/handwritingrepair
325 South Manning Boulevard
Albany, New York 12208-1731 USA
telephone 518/482-6763

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From: Thomas Byro <thbyro at earthlink.net>
Subject: LL-L "Idiomatica" 2002.10.13 (08) [E]

I will make some inquiries.  Unfortunately I no longer live in New York
City, where such inquiries would be much easier.

The book I saw at Mary Rosenberg, Inc. showed a map, delineating three broad
bands of Yiddish spoken in Germany.  The topmost band coincided with the
area where Plattdeutsch was spoken.  I assumed that the Yiddish spoken there
reflected the Plattdeutsch spoken in that area but I am ot absolutely sure,
not having read the book.

My first wife was an Orthodox Jew who came from a Yiddish speaking family
that originated in Kishinev.  There is little resemblance to Plattdeutsch
from the little Yiddish that I picked up.  However, I developed some
contacts in some of the Orthodox communities such as the Lubavitch, that I
might be able to exploit to research this question. Religion appears to be
a powerful force to save languages from extinction.

Yes, I read the Glueckl of Hamlen book in English.  A fascinating book.

New York is home to a number of publishers that print works of interest to
Jewish culture and language, such as Schocken Books.  I will look into these
as well.

Tom

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Language varieties

Kate:

> Yet Yiddish has other sounds for which no Hebrew letter exists

Welcome, Kate!  Good point, and a topic worth noting: introduction of
foreign-derived phonemes, and all that entails.

Tom, thanks a lot for planning to check into the resource thing!

Cheers!
Reinhard/Ron

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