LL-L "Language varieties" 2002.10.18 (03) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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 L O W L A N D S - L * 18.OCT.2002 (03) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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 A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
 L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic
               V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: Stan Levinson stlev99 at yahoo.com
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2002.10.18 (02) [E]

Mike et al.
It may be an aural perception problem on my part, but
I don't find Boston "party" to sound like rest of the
nation "potty".  (For truth in advertising purposes,
I'm an ex-Brooklyn NY boy, but haven't lived there for
35 years; and have a son living in Boston).
I won't be able to do this with IPA symbols (because
I'm too ignorant), but if we compare:
General American: potty
Boston: party
(Ignoring NY: party which has a "lower" vowel than
Boston, i believe),
I would say that vowel length will give away the
Boston variety every time, though I also feel that the
Boston variety has a really "broad" quality, i.e. it
is also qualitatively different from "potty".
That doesn't make it less of a good joke, though.
I enjoyed Mike's comments about "transference of R",
since we did that in Brooklyn too.  I could never
understand why my mother couldn't say "washer"
(washuh) but had no problem at all pronouncing
Californier.
Stan
> From: Szelog, Mike <Mike.Szelog at CITIZENSBANK.com>
> Subject: Language Varieties

> Now I see what you're getting at! Yes, I do agree.
> We do indeed have a very
> unique way of pronouncing our vowels. I would have
> to agree in that our "a"
> is indeed rather (raahthah) long, particularly if it
> occurs in a syllable
> which also undergoes the post-vocalic r deletion!
>
> My wife is from western NY (Buffalo area) and when
> we visit, people get a
> kick (or should I say they get a "wicked chahge")
> when I pronounce things
> like "pop, cot, pot, etc." with the "open o" sound
> (by this I mean the
> IPAsymbol indicated by the open o). They seem to say
> "pahp, caht, paht,
> etc." - their accent just doesn't seem to want to
> use this open o sound all
> that much! Hence the old joke about the Boston Tea
> "Potty" (most accents in
> the US pronounce this as "pahty" - exactly the New
> England pronounciation of
> "party"  - for "potty" we use that open o sound!).

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Language varieties

Mike, Lowlanders,

Like Stan (above), I don't consider the Boston pronunciation of "party" to
"sound like rest of the nation "potty"."  I hear the sequence /ar/ in Boston
pronunciation as [a:] (['p_ha:ti] ~ ['p_ha:d_0i]), thus very similar to the
common Australian pronunciation -- with a "flat" long "a" sound (like in
Standard German _nass_, just much longer).  I hear General American English
['p_hQ(:)ti] ~ ['p_hQ(:)d_0i] for "potty" (as opposed to BBC English
['p_hOt_hi] ~ ['p_hOt_hI] and General Australian ['p_hOt_hi]).  Like Stan, I
hear the "broad" New York pronunciation of /ar/ as having a lower vowel than
in Boston (something like (['p_hA:ti] ~ ['p_hA:d_0i]).

By the way, the pronunciation of /ar/ in Northern Lowlands Saxon (Low
German) is very much like that of Bostonian and Australian, e.g., _Park_
[p_ha:k] 'park', _Karr_ [k_ha:] 'car', _Mark_ [ma:k] 'mark', _Harm_ [ha:m]
'harm', _Smart_ [sma:t] 'smart', 'pain', _Barg_ [ba:x] 'mountain', 'hill',
_Harder_ ['ha:d3`] 'herder', _Lark_ [la:k] 'lark', _Parl_ [p_ha:l] 'pearl',
_Part_ [p_ha:t] 'part', 'share', _Karn_ [k_ha:n] 'kernel', 'nucleus'.

However, LS does not have liaison while English does, and all words must
begin with a consonant.  A glottal stop occurs were people perceive a word
to begin with a vowel (e.g., _Arm_ [?a:m] 'arm'), and, unlike in English,
this glottal stop cannot be deleted (thus may be argued to be phonemic
rather than inserted).  Interpreting essentially foreign _-a_ as _-er_ (as
is done in liaison in non-rhotic English dialects, e.g.,
"Chiner_or_other_allies") does not happen or at least cannot be proven;
e.g., _Trina or Ann_ ['tri:nQ ?O3` ?a.n] 'Catherine or Anne', which in
non-rhotic English might be pronounced ['tri:n at rOra.n], hence the perception
of "choppiness" in German and LS to speakers of English.

Another incidental remark: LS has the same aspiration ([_h]) rule as General
American English: aspiration of a voiceless stop applies only in a syllable
with primary stress (while in other English dialects it can apply anywhere);
hence _party_: LS and Bostonian ['p_ha:ti] vs England English ['p_hQ:t_hi] ~
['p_hQ:ts_hi].

Cheers!
Reinhard/Ron

P.S.: Phonetic notation used here: SAMPA
http://www.phon.ucl.ac.uk/home/sampa/home.htm,
http://www.phon.ucl.ac.uk/home/sampa/x-sampa.htm

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