LL-L "Language varieties" 2002.10.21 (01) [E]

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 L O W L A N D S - L * 21.OCT.2002 (01) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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From: Criostoir O Ciardha <paada_please at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2002.10.20 (04) [E]

Dear all,

Andrys wrote: "I am yet to hear anyone pronounce good-day as
g'die, or late as lite!"

Absolutely. I think this is a gross distortion foisted on unsuspecting
Australians.

"Whilst some regional variation is undoubtedly happening (Tasmanians tend
to end their sentences with though, New South Welshfolk with but and
Queenslanders and Territorians with eh. As in "Nice day, though/but/eh""

"Eh" seems to be spreading heavily in Perth. I picked it up from there and
now use it all the time, eh. Perth natives tend to see it as very New
Zealand in origin, through a New South Wales medium, eh. :) I think it's a
great tag.

Ron wrote: "It would be interesting to know if Christoir
found this to be so in Western Australia as well, because in "my" time I
felt that there was a range of ...lects within the greater Perth area and
the Southwest in general (Bunbury, Albany, Kalgoorlie)."

Kalgoorlie where I lived still retained the "broad Australian" or ocker
accent, definitely. Not too sure about Perth. Certainly my knowledge is
limited to the southern suburbs of Thornlie, Maddington and Canning Vale,
but I would doubt that amongst the young anything but an undifferentiated
"general Australian" accent is in use.As Ron suggests this may have
something to do with east-west migration and accent levelling but I
seriously believe the strongest culprit, as every where else, is the
national media. Amongst the very young (<16) I noticed a *very* strong
Americanisation (specifically Californisation) of accent and tone, even in
Kalgoorlie. Perhaps this is affected, I don't know.

I have noticed that Australians, like many working class English speakers,
become "broader" in speech when they are agitated, however.

As regards perceptions of phonology, I would *never ever* hear "day" as
"die" or "late" as "lite" - I hear each as day and late. The best man at my
wedding is Greek and he continually heard [oi] in those positions, e.g.,
"moit" for "mate". At a push I can understand a perception of [oi] in day,
but never [ai]. And I always tease my wife for inserting aspiration in such
phrases (if you'll excuse me) as "fuck off", which I hear as "fah-hack
awff". Presumably this is to do with the characteristic rising tone of
Australian English, where the aspiration is the peak of the ascendant tone.

Go raibh maith agaibh,

Críostóir.

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From: Thomas <t.mcrae at uq.net.au>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2002.10.20 (04) [E]

> Having lived in the far south (ie Hobart, Tasmania) and worked in the
> far north (ie Darwin and the Tiwi Islands) for some 35 years, and been
> to most places in between, I am yet to hear anyone pronounce good-day as
> g'die, or late as lite!
Both are commonly used here in Brisbane where I've lived and worked since
1971. I even had a problem once trying to chase up an order for sticky
labels where I rang the supplier and said "I want to know what's happened to
our labels ?" Woman's response was an intelligent "Eeeeh ?". After several
unproductive attempts to get my message over I resorted to spelling out the
word, that did it.."Aoh, Libels". Company is one of Australia's biggest
suppliers of the things.
You must mix with a better class of people Matey. :-)
Regards
Tom
Tom Mc Rae PSOC
Brisbane Australia
"The masonnis suld mak housis stark and rude,
To keep the pepill frome the stormes strang,
And he that fals, the craft it gois all wrang."
>From 15th century Scots Poem 'The Buke of the Chess'

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From: Stan Levinson <stlev99 at yahoo.com>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2002.10.20 (04) [E]

When I read Andrys's comments, my thoughts were (in a
less linguistically rigorous) the same as Ron's turned
out to be.  Ron has a good explanation, but the fact
is, Ondrys, to people from outside Australia, who are
familiar in particular with American or Canadian
English, "day" does sound closer to our "die" than our
"day", though I have also discovered from personal
experience that as we grow accustomed to an 'accent',
our 'mapping' must indeed change, because now when I
hear Australian accents (that good old internet:  all
the rugby league match videos  for free, all the
Aussie rules for a nominal fee), I have to admit that
I don't really notice it anymore unless I am focused
on it.
But Andrys, what about that darned /o/?  Really, it
does seem to take a complete tour of the mouth without
ever reaching the point of articulation of /o/ as we
New World types know it...
Stan

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Language varieties

Thanks for your feedback (above), guys.  As you can see, perception/mapping
and adjustment thereof varies and cannot be ignored or dismissed, no matter
what native speakers and well-acquainted ("remapped") listeners may say.

I remember my first brief encounter with a Farsi-speaking friend (from
Iran).  We had exchanged only a few words, and then she shouted across the
room what sounded like "Boy!"  For a few seconds I made a "Huh?!" face and
then remembered that she, like many Iranians, renders the [aI] sound (as in
"sigh", "die" and "line") as [Q.I], which to most non-Farsi speakers tends
to be mapped to "oy".  (Farsi has "short" /a/ which sounds rather like the
"a" in "man" in most English dialects, and a "long" /â/ which sounds like
the long Swedish "a" or the "ar" in very "posh" England English, with some
rounding.)  In rendering English [aI] she uses the "long" Farsi /â/: [Q.I].
She uses the "short" /a/ [æ] in rendering the English [EI] sound (as in
"may"): [æI].  And she says something like [oI] or [UI] for the English "oy"
diphthong.  Now that I have known her and other Farsi speakers for a long
time I hardly ever think about this.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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