LL-L "Language varieties" 2002.10.22 (02) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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 L O W L A N D S - L * 22.OCT.2002 (02) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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 A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
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From: Andrys Onsman <Andrys.Onsman at CeLTS.monash.edu.au>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2002.10.21 (03) [E]

To: George, Ron and all
Subject: Language varieties
From: Andrys Onsman

> I am really enjoying the chat on Aussie English. Some years ago I
> discovered there are semi-comic books about broad Australian - which has
> taken the name "Strine" an extreme pronunciation of Australian.

My bet is you'd enjoy Nino Culotto's "They're a Weird Mob" and
subsequent stories about an "English" speaking migrant learning to speak
"Australian." Culotto was actually John O'Grady a comedy writer with a
fine ear for language. I'm sure I owe whatever "Australianess" I have to
him. As it was written in the sixties, it's almost a historical piece
now, but it still entertains me enormously.

Good on youse,
Andrys Onsman

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From: Andrys Onsman <Andrys.Onsman at CeLTS.monash.edu.au>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2002.10.21 (01) [E]

To: Stan Levinson <stlev99 at yahoo.com>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2002.10.20 (04) [E]

> But Andrys, what about that darned /o/?  Really, it
> does seem to take a complete tour of the mouth without
> ever reaching the point of articulation of /o/ as we
> New World types know it...

Stan, I've just spent half an hour sounding /o/ (Heaven knows what the
people in the next office must think!) and apart from discovering that
its remarkable close to the Dutch ui, (a bit lower) I can only
congratulate you on your remarkable perspicacity and most effective
description. Perhaps you don't have as many flies and can open your
mouths wider? If nothing else I now really enjoy that sound!

Cheers,
Andrys

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From: Criostoir O Ciardha <paada_please at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2002.10.21 (03) [E]
Dear all,

George wrote:

"I am really enjoying the chat on Aussie English. Some years ago I
discovered there are semi-comic books about broad Australian - which has
taken the name "Strine" an extreme pronunciation of Australian."

I never understood "Strine" as a description of the dialect - I would use
(with apologies to Tara Brabazon) "Ozdray-yun" (i.e., Australian) as a name
for it. Furthermore, when I am Kalgoorlie or Perth I would call it "Wesd
Ozdray-yun", for reasons that Ron would understand!

"Do people think on balance it is a good or a bad thing for language
conservation?"

I'm ambivalent toward humour books on local dialect. For one, they perform
the old function of dismissing local language as ridiculous peasant speech
that should been taken seriously and on the other they are largely
inaccurate as the writers tend to mangle the language to get it sound as
silly as they want. There's a book on my language named "Ey up mi Duck"
which is little more than a mockery of the speech, which is depressing.
Local languages aren't quaint. They're the identity of real people and
should perhaps be afforded a little more respect.Ron's characterisation of a
"baseless foreign joke" applies just as much to local dialect.

I think in Australia there is less mockery of the tongue and more a sense of
national pride in it, however, which is refreshing to see.

Go raibh math agaibh,

Críostóir.

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Language varieties

Andrys:

> Stan, I've just spent half an hour sounding /o/ (Heaven knows what the
> people in the next office must think!)

So have I, but I closed my door ...  I think we are dealing with something
like [eW] (where the SAMPA [W] stands for an upside-down m, the unrounded
equivalent of [u]).

> Perhaps you don't have as many flies and can open your mouths wider?

*Now* we are getting somewhere! *There's* is a plausible explanation if ever
I heard (read) one, and it does explain a lot!  Oh, yes!  Hardly any place
has more flies than Australia.

Críostóir:

> I think in Australia there is less mockery of the tongue and more a sense
of
> national pride in it, however, which is refreshing to see.

The national pride thing is my impression also.  However, this does not mean
that Australians never poke fun at themselves, including their language.  In
fact, they do, but it is my impression that what on the surface appears to
be deprecating is really worn as a badge of honor.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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