LL-L "Language varieties" 2002.10.22 (03) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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 L O W L A N D S - L * 22.OCT.2002 (03) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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 A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
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From: Stan Levinson <stlev99 at yahoo.com>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2002.10.22 (02) [E]

Andrys,
Hope you and the "o" had fun together.  I also thought
that it had some resemblance to the Dutch "ui", but it
has got tons more character to it.  Just love Aussie
English.
Not just from point of view of phonetics: I've been
reading quite a bit of Australian literature, and keep
running to the computer to look at the macquarie
online dictionary, which is an incredible tool
(Carey's "Illywhacker" is practically a crash course
in "Strine").  I'm gonna have to find out if they will
download that thing to a PDA before the next time I go
to Australia!!!
Also, don't worry about those people in the next
office... in between thinking "What the hell is Andrys
doing?" they are thinking "Wow, I'm in Australia.  How
cool is that?"
Stan
> From: Andrys Onsman
> <Andrys.Onsman at CeLTS.monash.edu.au>
> Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2002.10.21 (01)
> [E]

> Stan, I've just spent half an hour sounding /o/
> (Heaven knows what the
> people in the next office must think!) and apart
> from discovering that
> its remarkable close to the Dutch ui, (a bit lower)
> I can only
> congratulate you on your remarkable perspicacity and
> most effective
> description. Perhaps you don't have as many flies
> and can open your
> mouths wider? If nothing else I now really enjoy
> that sound!
>
> Cheers,
> Andrys

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From: George M Gibault <gmg at direct.ca>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2002.10.21 (03) [E]

Hi!

For those who are curious, my name is pronounced differently in French and
English. When speaking English it is jorj jEEbo. In French it is zhorzh
zhibo. I forgot to mention a great book on Canadian Engkish called Canajun
Eh? which notes such Canadianisms as thre Chateau Laurier hotel in Ottawa
coming out as the "Shadow". It also evidences the Canadian preference for
ending sentences in eh.

Educated Canadians believe they have the most "neutral" accent in English.
In the sci fi film "2001 A Space Odyssey" for example, a Canadian voice was
deliberately chosen for HAL the renegade computer. Educated Canadian
apparently sounds "classier", "more polite", "smarter" and "more educated"
to most  American ears.America's, most trusted newsman, Peter Jennings -
speaks Canadian which is a touch classier even than Standard Broadcast
English taught to US newscasters. A few differences: yanks say May zhir we
say meh zhir for measure; yanks say zee we say zed for "z". (But have you
noticed Agent Zed in "Men In Black?")

Sadly lots of our kids now say Zee.  I have heard young Vancouverites
pronounce spoon as spIHoown (Val speak from the suburban LA Galleria?) Our
diphthong in "about" is less sharp than American - as also our diphthong in
"nice" - but we DON'T say "aboot" as some Americans claim.

The border is very real - while Torontonians and Vancouverites speak
dialects of General American, they speak more alike three thousand miles
apart than they do in comparison with their closest American neighbours.
Washington staters supposedly speak General American - but many have a
seemingly stronger "American" accent to Canadian ears than northern
Californians or Oregonians.

One good shibboleth - in British Columbia, in casual speech people say
"thanks." Washingtonians say "uh-huh."

Toronto English and Vancouver English are gradually becoming more not less
distinct in spite of the homogenizing impact of television - perhaps due to
stronger California influence here on the west coast. An East Indian (p.c.
South Asian) friend from Montreal notices that a lot of west coast Canadians
now end affirmative sentences with a rising intonation (Like to sound less
heavy and judgmental I guess man). Eastern and Central Canadians don't
(yet).

Some rural dialects of Canadian English - Ottawa Valley, Cape Breton,
various Newfoundland dialects, have strong Irish, Gaelic or Scots
influence - and are often parodied. The only strong regionalism I have
encountered in western Canada was the tendency of kids in the East Kootenays
(rocky mountain south east of British Columbia to use "fair" for very - as
in "fair good." Has anyone else heard this from other places?

just another confused Canadian                  George

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Language varieties

George:

> yanks say May zhir we say meh zhir for measure

*Most* Yanks do, not all.  For some strange reason, "mey-zhir" rubs me the
wrong way.  Apparently I am not the only one.  I have heard native American
English speakers complain about it too.

> One good shibboleth - in British Columbia, in casual speech people say
"thanks."
> Washingtonians say "uh-huh."

As far as I know, this "uh-huh" stands for "You're welcome," "Don't mention
it" or "Sure" in *response* to "Thank you," at least here in Washington
*State*.  At first it struck me as strange and impolite, but I have gotten
(= another American adaptation of mine) over it and have caught myself
saying (or grunting?) it a few times recently.

On the whole, I do not find the speech habits of people in Vancouver (which
I visit quite often) to be very different.  As far as I can tell, it is
quite a mixed bag, because the city (the warmest really large city in
Canada, not mentioning Victoria) attracts so many people from all over
Canada.

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