LL-L "Etymology" 2002.10.24 (02) [E]

Thu Oct 24 15:05:55 UTC 2002

======================================================================
 L O W L A N D S - L * 24.OCT.2002 (02) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
 Web Site: <http://www.lowlands-l.net>  Email: admin at lowlands-l.net
 Rules & Guidelines: <http://www.lowlands-l.net/rules.htm>
 Posting Address: <lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org>
 Server Manual: <http://www.lsoft.com/manuals/1.8c/userindex.html>
 Archive: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/lowlands-l.html>
=======================================================================
 You have received this because you have been subscribed upon request.
 To unsubscribe, please send the command "signoff lowlands-l" as message
 text from the same account to <listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org> or
 sign off at <http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html>.
=======================================================================
 A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
 L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic
               V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
=======================================================================

From: Mike Aryunov <kraai at mail.ru>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2002.10.23 (09) [E]

Hi Lowlanders,

At a first glance the word resembles the High German 'Knopf' with the
similar meaning. So we can deduce: Knopf > knop[ka], where -ka is a
diminutive suffix.
On the other hand 'p' instead of 'pf' makes me think of Lowlandic rather
than High German or Yiddish. The other possibility may be that 'pf' is very
uncommon for Russian so it might have been modified by natives. It is
interesting that -ke as diminutive is used also in Frisian (West & East) and
Low Saxon. The West Frisian word for button is 'knopke'.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Lowlands-L" <admin at lowlands-l.net>
To: <LOWLANDS-L at LISTSERV.LINGUISTLIST.ORG>
Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2002 2:33 AM
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2002.10.23 (09) [E]
>
> [Unicode]
>
> From: Mike-club <botas at club-internet.fr>
> Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2002.10.23 (06) [E/(Russian)]
>
> > Привет, дорогие друзья!
> > Вы знаете этимологию российского слова "кнопка"? Интересно, прибыло ли
>   слово
> > от голландского языка или нижнесаксонского (нижненемецкого) языка, или
> > прибыло ли слово от немецкого языка евреев?
> >
> > Reinhard/Ron
>
> Ron,
> My wife (a native) insists, it must be a German
> loanword. Take it for what it´s worth, I suspect
> it´s only a gut feeling of hers.
> Mike Wintzer

----------

From: Antero Helasvuo <antero.helasvuo at welho.com>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2002.10.23 (06) [E/(Russian)]

Dear Ron.

I'm happy to tell you that your "garbled garbage" reached me quite
ungarbled. I'm using Eudora e-mail on Windows 98 platform with the
Scandinavian character set. When I made a reply in preview mode by
highlighting the Russian portion of your letter the result was this:

>??????, ??????? ??????!
>?? ?????? ?????????? ??????????? ????? "??????"? ?????????, ??????? ??
?????
>?? ???????????? ????? ??? ???????????????? (??????????????) ?????, ???
>??????? ?? ????? ?? ????????? ????? ???????

However "replying" the whole letter it turned out this way:

ÐYÑ?Ð¸Ð²ÐµÑ,, Ð´Ð¾Ñ?Ð¾Ð³Ð¸Ðµ Ð´Ñ?ÑfÐ·ÑOÑ!
Ð'Ñ< Ð·Ð½Ð°ÐµÑ,Ðµ ÑÑ,Ð¸Ð¼Ð¾Ð»Ð¾Ð³Ð¸ÑZ Ñ?Ð¾ÑÑÐ¸Ð¹ÑÐºÐ¾Ð³Ð¾ ÑÐ»Ð¾Ð²Ð°
"ÐºÐ½Ð¾Ð¿ÐºÐ°"? Ð~Ð½Ñ,ÐµÑ?ÐµÑÐ½Ð¾, Ð¿Ñ?Ð¸Ð±Ñ<Ð»Ð¾ Ð»Ð¸ ÑÐ»Ð¾Ð²Ð¾
Ð¾Ñ, Ð³Ð¾Ð»Ð»Ð°Ð½Ð´ÑÐºÐ¾Ð³Ð¾ ÑÐ·Ñ<ÐºÐ° Ð¸Ð»Ð¸
Ð½Ð¸Ð¶Ð½ÐµÑÐ°ÐºÑÐ¾Ð½ÑÐºÐ¾Ð³Ð¾ (Ð½Ð¸Ð¶Ð½ÐµÐ½ÐµÐ¼ÐµÑ?ÐºÐ¾Ð³Ð¾) ÑÐ·Ñ<ÐºÐ°,
Ð¸Ð»Ð¸
Ð¿Ñ?Ð¸Ð±Ñ<Ð»Ð¾ Ð»Ð¸ ÑÐ»Ð¾Ð²Ð¾ Ð¾Ñ, Ð½ÐµÐ¼ÐµÑ?ÐºÐ¾Ð³Ð¾ ÑÐ·Ñ<ÐºÐ°
ÐµÐ²Ñ?ÐµÐµÐ²?

Unfathomable unsense. The same happened, when I really opened the letter.
Nevertheless copying it from the preview mode to Word 2000 was successful.

In Finnish there are several words that have their origin in Swedish (knapp
= button etc) or pehaps German/Low Saxon: nappi = button, nappula = game
piece, näppylä = pimple, nuppi = knob,  noppa = dice, plus a host of
colloquial variations. The initial "k" has fallen off due to the natural
structure of Finnish. By the way a tricky question in examinations is
generally called "knoppi".
About the Russian "knopka" one could speculate, that the use of buttons in
clothing came to Russia rather late in the history. Compare it for instance
to their word for pencil, "carandash". Interestingly enough the Russian
word for fingernail is "nogotj" and for garlic "chesnok" (perhaps "itchy
nail" or something), which make me think of the Finnish word for beak (or
nozzle) "nokka". Who knows if it was not some Jewish tailor who introduced
the word into Russian.

Antero Helasvuo
Pitäjänmäentie 35 D 32
00370 HELSINKI
Finland

Tel (fax on demand) + 358 9 555396
antero.helasvuo at welho.com

----------

From: Kirky planetkirky at yahoo.com.au
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2002.10.23 (04) [E]

Hello Wim , Hello Mathieu,

Thank you so much for the information! It certainly has cleared up
where my Opoe (first name Tite) would have first heard it to remember
it (esp, as she was born near  It Hearrenfean, and also lived there for
a time).

Interesting on the L-Lowlands site that in a Dialect: Isle of
Wangerooge (Germany, extinct 1950) recorded in 1927, _Oopel_ meant
_granddad_.

Kirstina [Bray]

> From: Wim <wkv at home.nl>
> Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2002.10.23 (01) [E]
>
> Hi!
>
> About the word Opoe...  that's the normal word for grandmother in
> Salland, Eastern Netherlands.
> Bye!
>
> Wim   wkv at home.nl
> [Wim Verdoold]
>
> ----------
>
> From: Mathieu. van Woerkom <Mathieu.vanWoerkom at student.kun.nl>
> Subject: Etymology
>
> Kirstina Bray wrote:
>
> > I am new to the list and have found it very interesing so far.  I
> was
> > wondering if anyone has come across the word "Opoe" in any of their
> > language/ etymology research?  My grandmother, who is of Frisian
> decent
> > (she was born in Jubbega, near It Hearrenfean) requested that my
> > brother and I call her 'Opoe', while living in Australia,  instead
> of
> > 'Nanna' which we had previously called her from Canada.  As we
> know,
> > "Beppe" is Grandmother in Frisian, and "Oma" is Grandmother in
> > Nederlander.  My family and I have been puzzling over the language/
> > etymological source of "Opoe" for  some years now, and I would be
> > greatful to anyone who may be able to shed light on the issue.
>
> Hello Kirstina,
>
> as far as I know, _opoe_ is Urban Frisian for _granny_ (Urban Frisian
> is a
> dialect group which is strongly influenced by Dutch, it developed in
> the
> major
> towns of Friesland, e.g. Leeuwarden, Heerenveen, Dokkum, Sneek,
> Harlingen,
> Franeker etc.) You can read about it at our new project site
> 'Lowlands Talk'
> at
> http://lowlands-l.net/talk
>
> By the way, another Dutch word for _granny_ is _opoe_ as well...
> (grandpa &
> grandma = opa & opoe / opa & oma)
>
> Regards,
> Mathieu

==================================END===================================
> * Please submit postings to <lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org>.
> * Postings will be displayed unedited in digest form.
> * Please display only the relevant parts of quotes in your replies.
> * Commands for automated functions (including "signoff lowlands-l")
> are
>   to be sent to <listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org> or at
>   <http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html>.
>
 =======================================================================

=====
~~"Imagination is the foundation of Knowledge"~~
Albert Einstein
(balancing instinct and logic :)

==================================END===================================
* Please submit postings to <lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org>.
* Postings will be displayed unedited in digest form.
* Please display only the relevant parts of quotes in your replies.
* Commands for automated functions (including "signoff lowlands-l") are
  to be sent to <listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org> or at
  <http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html>.
 =======================================================================