LL-L "Sociolinguistics" 2002.09.05 (05) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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 A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian L=Limburgish
 LS=Low Saxon (Low German) S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic Z=Zeelandic (Zeeuws)
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From: "Friedrich-Wilhelm Neumann" <Friedrich-Wilhelm.Neumann at epost.de>
Subject: LL-L "Pronouns" 2002.09.04 (03) [E]

Hi, Ron, Lowlanders,

Ron wrote:

> John Magnus,
>
> Your description of the use of _du_ vs _you_ in Shetlandic is certainly
> very interesting.
>
> Please bear in mind that there is variation in the (Continental)
> European use of the familiar vs polite/deferential 2nd-person pronouns,
> with regard to dialect, sociolect and generation/era.  While there is
> mostly overlap, there are certainly also differences in the socially
> correct usage of, say, French _tu_ vs _vous_, Spanish _tu_ vs _usted_
> (even if we disregard Latin American dialects), Swedish _du_ vs _De_,
> Dutch _jij_ vs _u_, German _du_ vs _Sie_ and, even though
> German-derived, North German Lowlands Saxon (Low German) _du_ vs _Se_.
>
> The post-war ("baby boomer") generation in Germany was taught to say
> _du_ only to children, teenagers (under 18 or so) and animals, besides
> to relatives.  Their model of adult behavior was to use _Sie_ in
> addressing all adults, including those of the same age or younger,
> unless there was "formal intimacy," i.e., a relationship between adults
> "advanced" to the _du_ level by some "rite of passage," usually by the
> (perceptably) older party offering the _du_ and the other party
> agreeing, and oftentimes this was/is celebrated with a drink
> (_Brudershaft trinken_ "to drink brotherhood", usually with the
> glas-lifting arms linked.
>
> Much of this began to fall by the wayside in the "revolutionary" 1960s
> when lots of social conventions came to be discarded among baby boomers
> and those younger, in Eastern Germany under the auspices of legislated
> social equality.
>
> At that time young adults started addressing everyone of their own
> generation and those younger by means of _du_.  However, this did not
> extend any further.  Their parents' generation continued to be addressed
> by means of _Sie_, and in most cases they addressed the adult baby
> boomers by means of _Sie_.  My mother remained in a _Sie_ relationship
> with her neighbor even though they ended up best friends!  (However, she
> and our own Ms. Kramer-Freudenthal went to _du_ and first name basis
> almost as soon as they met last year.)  This neighbor used to address me
> by means of _du_ and promptly switched to _Sie_ on my 18th birthday!
> She is a nice and very friendly lady, but she is also what is known as
> _etepetete_ ([?e:te pe'te:te] ~ [?e:t@ p@'te:t@], "formal,
> perfectionistic, by the book").  Thus, this is a case of personal choice
> (of degree of distance).  Other people in similar situations might have
> chosen different configurations.
>
> Furthermore, there is an intermediate level: using _Sie_ while still
> addressing one by first name.  Thus, when I was a child, the _etepetete_
> neighbor would address me with _du_ and _Reinhard_.  When I was a young
> adult, this changed to _Sie_ and _Reinhard_.  Now she addresses me with
> _Sie_ and _Herr Hahn_!  Interestingly, however, she switched to _du_ and
> _Reinhard_ as soon as she switched to Lowlands Saxon (Low German) when I
> spoke with her exactly one year ago and she revealed (much to my
> surprise) that she spoke the language fluently and well.  However, she
> switched back to _Sie_ and _Reinhard_ as soon as she switched back to
> German.

Ron, we two seem to be about of the same age, I made the same
experiences
and educations in the use of "Du" or "Sie".

But there have been and still are regional differences, specially in Low
Saxon.

In the (formerly rich) marsh-lands, between Cuxhaven and Stade, You may
not
say "Du" to anyone, older or younger, whom You do not know well. If You
go
from Stade down to Hamburg (Altes Land), You HAVE to talk (as a MALE
speaker) to another male person in "Du"", but never to a female person
of a
certain reputation- she remains a "Sie" to You unless she will offer the
"Du".

If You move away from the coast (but still within a Low Saxon region)
You
are- gradually- more and more allowed even to talk to women in "Du", but
You still have to do it with some delicacy of feeling, even in those
days and in the post- "baby-boom-"generation.

I think it to be similar in Eastern Friesland, but I would like to hear
Holger's comment.

Regards

Fiete.

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