LL-L "Language change" 2002.09.19 (03) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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 L O W L A N D S - L * 19.SEP.2002 (03) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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 A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
 L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic
               V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: Charles Keith Collins ckcollin at indiana.edu
Subject: LL-L "Categories" 2002.09.16 (05) [E]

My university email account doesn't seem like to like the idea of cut and
paste, so I hope this is not too confusing

> From: Gary Taylor <gary_taylor_98 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Pronouns
>
> Sorry, I can't answer this one, but I thought you
> might like to know that 'yours' in Cockney (and some
> Estuary) English can also be 'yourn' - i have the
> feeling that this is a contraction of 'your one' but
> there might be a more distant dialectal varient alive
> here as I don't recall ever hearing 'theirn', 'ourn'
> or 'hern' (hisn and itsn would just be ridiculous!),
> however it would fit in with 'mine' and (arch.)
> 'thine'. Any ideas?
>
> Gary

Thanks, Gary!  Actually, "his'n" is perfectly fine in App.  Also "her'n",
"your'n" and  "our'n" are used, but I've never heard "their'n" or "its'n"
either.

Here's an example:
"Is 'at your car?"
"No, it's his'n"

The first speaker could have used "your'n" but only of course in the
absence of "your car".

Another interesting word to me is "young'un" (youngin?).  This is used in
place of
"child" or "kid".  Just when I was thinking it was sad how the language
was waning, my 4 year old cousin asked of my absentee sister and her
boyfriend "When's 'em young'uns is comin' back?"  Maybe things aren't as
bad-off as I thought...

Much obliged,
Keith Collins

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From: John M. Tait <jmtait at wirhoose.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Categories" 2002.09.16 (01) [A/D/E]

Nigel wrote:

 The
>statement "Some recent objections have come from a vociferous group of
>zealots whose purpose it is to destroy the English language as a part of
>a political agenda" is not an objective statement of fact, it is a
>highly biased partisan statement.

>I think it is also clear that many editors and publishers may refuse to
>accept (or may rewrite) material which is blatantly
>sexist/non-inclusive.
>
>We have here a forum where we rejoice in each other's
>languages/dialects/varieties/idioms and enjoy discussing them and
>learning about them in an environment blissfully free of the prejudice
>that one often finds in connection with some of these varieties. Mr
>Welsh's over(t)ly prescriptivist views sit uneasily with the spirit of
>tolerance shown by the vast majority of those who post here.

I agree with the principle of tolerance, and that being the case I'm not
entirely clear why the characterisation of the traditional use of 'he'
(which, as Gabriele has stated, is felt by those who use it to be inclusive)
as "blatantly sexist/non-inclusive" is any different in principle from the
condemnation of PC language which Nigel objects to. Is proscriptionism
somehow morally superior to prescriptionism?

John M. Tait.

http://www.wirhoose.co.uk

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