LL-L "Morphology" 2002.09.19 (13) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

======================================================================
 L O W L A N D S - L * 19.SEP.2002 (13) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
 Web Site: <http://www.lowlands-l.net>  Email: admin at lowlands-l.net
 Rules & Guidelines: <http://www.lowlands-l.net/rules.htm>
 Posting Address: <lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org>
 Server Manual: <http://www.lsoft.com/manuals/1.8c/userindex.html>
 Archive: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/lowlands-l.html>
=======================================================================
 You have received this because have been subscribed upon request. To
 unsubscribe, please send the command "signoff lowlands-l" as message
 text from the same account to <listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org> or
 sign off at <http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html>.
=======================================================================
 A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
 L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic
               V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
=======================================================================

From: Friedrich-Wilhelm Neumann <Friedrich-Wilhelm.Neumann at epost.de>
Subject: LL-L "Pronouns" 2002.09.15 (05) [E]

Hi, Ron. Lowlanders,

some days ago You wrote:

> Fiete,
>
> *All* diminutive derivations of nouns--irrespective of the gender of the
> original nouns--have neuter gender in Lowlands Saxon (Low German), German
> and Dutch (and I suppose in other Continental Lowlands varieties as well).

-I had to agree: that's the rule!-

And, answering me in LL-L "Categories" 2002. 09. 18 (05) [E]:

>I'm afraid there is no *real* exception to the rule.

Perhaps(?) I found some examples, used in LS as well as in UG. The
diminutism seems to be very old and, as far as I guess, is a kind of loan
from any Southern German dialects (eg Swabian?):

(UG/LS) "der/dei Bengel" (masc.)  (E) "urchin";

(UG/LS) "der/dei Schlingel"  (masc.), (E) "rascal";

(UG/LS) "der/dei Deckel" (masc.), (E) "lid" (*perhaps* deriving from [UG]
"das Dach", "die Decke", [LS) "dat Dack", "dei Deecken", [E] "roof",
"carpet", neuter gender).

Did grammar forget these words to be diminished, because of their age and
long, *seriously*  use in daily languages?

Regards and Greutens

Fiete.

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Morphology

Fiete,

I have a feeling that in the above examples we are dealing with an earlier
layer of derivative morphology, possibly an /-l/ that derived nouns
(iterative/frequentive action/agent?) from verbs (e.g., _decken_ 'to cover'
> _Deckel_ 'cover', 'lid').

Note also English "cradle", "ladle" (< "to lade") and "needle" (cf., German
_nähen_ 'sew', _Naht_ 'seam', _Nadel_ 'needle', LS _nei(he)n_ ~ _naien_
'sew', _Nahd_ ~ _Naad_ 'seam', _Nadel_ 'needle', Dutch _naaien_ 'sew',
_naad_ 'seam', _naald_ (< *_naadl_?) 'needle').

At any rate, the etymology is not transparent to the average speaker.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

==================================END===================================
Please submit postings to <lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org>. * Postings
will be displayed unedited in digest form. * Please display only the
relevant parts of quotes in your replies. * Commands for automated functions
(including "signoff lowlands-l") are   to be sent to
<listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org> or at
<http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html>. * Please use only
Plain Text format, not Rich Text (HTML) or any other   type of format, in
your submissions
=======================================================================