LL-L "Nomads" 2002.09.24 (02) [E]
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L O W L A N D S - L * 24.SEP.2002 (02) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic
V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: John M. Tait jmtait at wirhoose.co.uk
Subject: LL-L "Nomads" 2002.09.19 (05) [E]
I know someone from Wales who describes himself as speaking 'Brittonic
Welsh'. Initially I thought this was 'Brythonic', but putting two and four
together - including his claims that he could understand some of the
language (Quenya and Sindarin) on Lord of the Rings, which he seems to think
is Northern Welsh - I have come to the conclusion that what he describes as
'Brittonic' is in fact English with a Welsh accent and a smattering of Welsh
expressions. However, some of the expressions he uses as examples - such as
'dil the gorgio' - are obviously Romany, and - trying to winkle out facts
from what is obviously an individual mythopoiea - I gather that he is, or
was associated with what he calls 'water gypsies' who lived on boats in the
South Wales area. I wondered if anyone knew anything about them, or their
speech?
John M. Tait.
http://www.wirhoose.co.uk
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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Nomads
Dear Lowlanders,
Suddenly the U.S. national media have discovered the "Irish Travelers," ever
since a woman, who turned out to belong to them, was caught by a video
camera abusing her child in a parking lot. I had heard of the Irish
Travelers before, also that they have been represented in North America and
Australia for about a hundred years. However, I have a hard time finding
samples of their "secret language" (cryptolect). The media describe it as
English with Gaelic and Romani admixture. An ex-Travelers who was
interviewed gave an example sentence, a question asking someone if he or she
is a Traveler, and I believe I heard the word _romni_ in it.
I have also heard of Danish, Norwegian and Swedish Travelers who have their
own cryptolects, but again I can find no samples. Apparently their German
and Austrian equivalents are the Jenischen (Yeniches) whom I have mentioned
before
(http://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind9910D&L=lowlands-l&P=R262
,
http://listserv.linguistlist.org/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0208D&L=lowlands-l&P=R5085
).
The _Ethnologue_ gives the following information:
SHELTA:
Population 6,000 in Ireland. Population total all countries 86,000.
Region Also spoken in United Kingdom, USA.
Alternate names THE CANT, CANT, IRISH TRAVELER CANT, SHELDRU, GAMMON
Classification Indo-European, Celtic, Insular, Goidelic.
Comments The secret language, or cryptolect, of Travellers in the
British Isles. Based largely on Irish. Not Gypsies.
TRAVELLER SCOTTISH:
Population 4,000 in Scotland. Population total all countries 4,000 or
more.
Region Also spoken in Australia, USA.
Alternate names SCOTTISH CANT, SCOTTISH TRAVELLER CANT
Classification Unclassified.
Comments A blend language of High Romani and Elizabethan Cant. The
earliest texts go back to the sixteenth century. Not Gypsies. Nomadic in
Scotland. In USA they travel but have a fixed base.
TRAVELLER NORWEGIAN:
Population No estimate available.
Alternate names RODI, NORWEGIAN TRAVELLER
Classification Indo-European, Germanic, North, West Scandinavian.
Comments An independent language based on Norwegian with heavy lexical
borrowing from Northern Romani and German Rotwelsch. Not intelligible with
Angloromani. Still very much alive (1997). Spoken by the Fanter, who are not
Gypsies, but have intermarried with Gypsies and Yeniche (German Travellers).
The Romani influence comes from speakers who are descended from the first
diaspora from India. Romani people were abandoned on the coast of Norway
from British ships from 1544 onwards.
TRAVELLER DANISH:
Population No estimate available.
Alternate names RODI, ROTWELSCH
Classification Indo-European, Germanic, North, East Scandinavian,
Danish-Swedish, Danish-Bokmal, Danish.
Comments An independent language based on Danish with heavy lexical
borrowing from Northern Romani. Not inherently intelligible with
Angloromani. It may be intelligible with Traveller Norwegian and Traveller
Swedish. There are reported to be few speakers. It may be linguistically
extinct (D. Kenrick 1986). Romani people were transported to Denmark by
James IV of Scotland in July 1505.
TAVRINGER ROMANI:
Population 25,000 in Sweden (1998 Hallman). Population total both
countries 31,000.
Region Scattered all over Sweden. Also spoken in Norway.
Alternate names ROMMANI, SVENSK ROMMANI, TRAVELLER SWEDISH,
'TATTARE'
Classification Indo-European, Germanic, North, East Scandinavian,
Danish-Swedish, Swedish.
Comments Not intelligible with Angloromani. Speakers are fluent in
Swedish or Norwegian. Used mainly as a secret language by the speakers (D.
Kenrick 1985), a Gypsy group in Sweden. An independent language based on
Swedish with heavy lexical borrowing from Northern Romani. Romani people
arrived in Sweden via Denmark in 1512. Investigation needed: intelligibility
with Traveller Norwegian, Traveller Danish, bilingual proficiency in
Swedish.
Also spoken in:
Norway Language name TAVRINGER ROMANI
Population 6,000 in Norway (1998 Hallman).
Alternate names ROMMANI, SVENSK ROMMANI, TRAVELLER SWEDISH,
'TATTARE'
Comments Not intelligible with Angloromani. Speakers are fluent
in Swedish or Norwegian. Used mainly as a secret language by the speakers
(D. Kenrick 1985). An independent language based on Swedish with heavy
lexical borrowing from Northern Romani. Romani people arrived in Sweden via
Denmark in 1512. A Gypsy group. See main entry under Sweden.
YENICHE:
Population No estimate available.
Region Also spoken in Austria, France, Netherlands, Switzerland.
Alternate names JENISCH, YENISHE, GERMAN TRAVELLERS
Classification Mixed Language, German-Yiddish-Romani-Rotwelsch.
Comments German with a heavy cryptolectal lexical influsion from
Rotwelsch, Yiddish, Romani, and Hebrew. The first language of some (The
Carrier Pidgin 1977). A blend language of certain urban nomadic groups. Not
Gypsies. Possibly arose as a result of those who were dispossessed because
of the Hanseatic laws (I. Hancock). They are a distinct ethnic group.
(Note the possible "Hanseatic" link!)
So the Irish Travelers are apparently the same as the Tinkers.
A more thorough web search yielded the following, even "dictionaries":
Shelta:
http://www.travellersrest.org/shelta.htm
Rommani:
http://www.multietn.uu.se/hazell.html
More information would be appreciated.
Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
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