LL-L "Etymology" 2003.08.08 (08) [E/LS]

Fri Aug 8 19:59:09 UTC 2003

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L O W L A N D S - L * 08.AUG.2003 (08) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: Friedrich-Wilhelm Neumann <Fieteding at gmx.net>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2003.08.08 (03) [LS]

Moin, Holger,

Du schreevst:

> > > From: Holger Weigelt <platt at holger-weigelt.de>
> > > Fan Dīn "Leeigvoaagel" heb ik no nōit höört un wäit ōk niks wat....
> Nē, föör 'n kūkūk heb 'k dat wōrd no nōjt hööert, man 't mağ wēsen, dat 't
> wat mit "lāj" tau daun het, wat up düütsk "faul" bīdüd. Dan was dat 'n
> "lâj
> fööğel", tau lāj tau 't sülvenst ūtbröyden fan sīn aier.
> (Un mit "lāj" un "lâj" hebben wī glīk no wat föör 't tēma "phonology".)
> Kumpelment
> Holger

Dat lücht' mii bithertau an meersten inn!
Denn koomt dat an 'n Innen uut Diin Rabeeid!

Dat woord (EFLS): "laj" un' dat Ingelte (E): "lazy" kunnen 't sülvigt
Oorsprong hebben?!
In uns LS-Dialekt kenn ick dat ne.

Wees bedankt!

Greutens

Fiete.

(Friedrich W. Neumann)
Not Lucifer I fear,
but those almighty Gods.

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From: Friedrich-Wilhelm Neumann <Fieteding at gmx.net>
Subject: Etymologie
Lowlanners, specially Holger;

(English below)

wo ick Dii jüsst mool foot heff, kann 'ck Dii  wat froogen, watt mii all
siit längere Tiid in 'n Kopp 'rüm geiht:

wiesau heeit (LS): "[Buuern-]Hoff", (UG): "[Bauern-]Hof", (E): "farm [area]"
opp Diin (EFLS): "Plaats"?

Kloor- datt Woord koomt von (UG): "Platz", (E): "place" aff, un wii seggt in
uns Dialekt ook aff un ann (LS): "Hoffsteel", (UG): "Hofstelle", (E):
"farm-place", mann meist jümmer inne Meeint von "lütt" (E): "small".

Is dat Frees' schen Infloot, or koomt dat von 't Hollandsche?

***

(English)

being able to "catch" You at the moment I' d like to put a special question
to You, which had been "going round" in my brain since some times:

why is the word for (LS): "[Buuern-]Hoff", (UG): "[Bauern-]Hof", (E): "farm
[area?]" in Your dialect (EFLS): "Plaats"?

OK- the word derives from (UG): "Platz", (E): "place", and in our LS-dialect
we sometimes also say (LS): "Hoffsteel", (UG): "Hofstelle", (E):
"farm-place, but mostly in the special meaning of  (LS): "lütt" (E):
"small".

Is that Frisian or Dutch influence?

Kumpelmenten/regards

Fiete.

(Friedrich W. Neumann)

Not Lucifer I fear,
but those almighty Gods.

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

Fiete:

Nederlands/Dutch:
   _plaats_: site, place, spot, situation, location
   _(boeren)hoeve_: farm, rural estate, homestead
   _hofste(d)e_: farm, rural estate, homestead
   _boerderij_: farm, rural estate, homestead

Afrikaans:
   _(boere)plaas_: farm, rural estate

Westerlauwer ("West") Frisian:
   _boerepleats_: farm, rural estate, homestead
   _boupleats_: farm, rural estate, homestead
   _pleats_: farm, rural estate, homestead

Northern Lowlands Saxon (Low German):
   _Plaats_ (~ _Platz_): place, spot, location, specific location (e.g., a
port);
   Eastern Friesland: farm, rural estate, homestead

Oxford English Dictionary (online):
[ME. place, a. F. place (11th c.) = Pr. plassa, Sp. plaza, Pg. praça, It.
piazza, med.L. placia:late L. type *plattia for classical L. platea, broad
way, open space, ad. Gr. plateia (sc. hodos) broad way. The L. word had been
already taken into Old Northumbrian in the form plæce, plætse, rendering L.
platea of the Vulgate; but the history of the current word begins with the
adoption of the F. place in sense 2, the mod. use in 1b. being a more recent
borrowing from the Romanic langs. From the latter came also MDu. plaetse,
Du. plaats, MHG., Ger. platz, MLG. plas, LG. plâts, plâtse, Icel. pláz (13th
c.), Sw. plats, Da. plads. Welsh plâs is app. from ME. Place has superseded
OE. stow and (largely) stede; it answers to F. lieu, L. locus, as well as to
F. place, and the senses are thus very numerous and difficult to arrange.
  With the doubled t of late L. *plattia, cf. the similar phenomenon in
*plattus PLAT (with which platea was prob. associated); also in *pettia
PIECE, *pccus PIKE, *pppa PIPE, etc.]

> Is that Frisian or Dutch influence?

Perhaps we've got to be careful here and not think in terms of today's
nations and countries so much.  My hunch is that _plaats_ 'farm' is not due
to Western influence but is due to Eastern Friesland (and its Frisian
heritage) belonging to the region in which this meaning applies, most likely
in which this meaning was *preserved*.  We need to consider the possibility
that its absence in some other LS dialects could be due to *German*
influence.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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