LL-L "Etymology" 2003.08.09 (02) [E/LS]

Sat Aug 9 18:07:57 UTC 2003

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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: Anja Meyfarth <anja-meyfarth at t-online.de>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2003.08.08 (09) [E]

Moin moin!

Fiete wrote:

> I assumed the border for this idiom at the river Weser (where we can find
> the "Luneplate" etc.)- but: we have a "Rhiin-Plate" in the Elbe-river too,
> naming a small sand-bank, just across the town of Glueckstadt (I am sure
You
> have seen it crossing the Elbe with the ferry).
>
> Of course another meaning- but on the same base.

I took a look in the new Sass-dictionary LS-High German: Plaat (Ploot):
Platte, Kuchenblech {I would prefer Backbleck}; Sandbank (plate, ? {didn't
find the word}; sandbank)
The variation "Plate" is not known to it (but it seems to be the more
general form among mariners).
But there is this: Platen (Ploten): Schürze (apron)

Have a nice weekend!

Anja

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From: Heinrich Becker <heinrich.becker at gmx.net>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2003.08.08 (08) [E/LS]  Holger Weigelts
"Leeigvogel "

Anja, Holger, Fiete un alle anderen,

gebruk van dat woord " leeig, laj, leige, lee"

in miin mönsterländischen  Dialekt seggt de Lüde vandag noch mancks:

" dat is depatt alltidt nen leigen Kiärl wesst !"

up  engelsk: .. he has always been a nonreliable person !
Ik denk, dat Anja denn richtigen wiäch wiist heff,,,,

..gefeliciteerd !  Heinrich Becker

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From: "Holger Weigelt" <platt at holger-weigelt.de>
Subject: "Idiomatica"

> From: Anja Meyfarth <anja-meyfarth at t-online.de>
> Subject: LL-L "Idiomatica" 2003.08.08 (04) [LS]
>
> Moin moin!
>
> Holger schreev:
>
> > Äien
> > dorfan is, dat 't fan "mo¯j" kumt un dat is mo¯j un góëlk tau lööwen man
> nó
> > mi¯n dünken kan dat näit räecht we¯sen.
>
> All mien ostfreesche Kumpels vertellt jümmers wedder, dat "moin" vun dat
> Adjektiv "moi" kümmt. Se schrifft dat ook so. Mi dücht, dat een "i" an't
Enn
> vun een Woort oder vör "e" licht as "j" utspraken ward. De niege Sass
wiest
> sogaar de Schrievwies "moje" för de flektierte Form op. Un mi is dat
Phonem
> "moi" blots eenmal in't Plattdüütsche bekannt, man ik bün vermoden, dat
dat
> een Rest vun dat oole Oostfreesch is (ik heff keen Wöörbook för
> Saterfreesch, man ik kan dat nässte Week mal in de Uni nahkieken).
Annerswo
> gifft dat "moi" eegentlich nich, dat hört oder leest een blots bi de
> Oostfresen.
>
> Vele Gröte ut Kiel,
>
> Anja
>
Moin Anja !
Mäisttīds word d'r säeğt, dat "moin" fan "mōj" kumt un dat is ōk läip góëlk
tau lööven. Mağ ōk wēsen, dat 't sō is, man wen ik säeğ, dat ik dat näit
äits lööven wil, dan het dat sīn ōrsóek in däi fōnologisk wetten, däi ik, um
däi sülwerğ tīd as mīn anner sğrīven, unner dat tēma "phonology" föör
Reinhard ūtnanner set't heb (un dat het niks d'r mit tau krīgen, of Dū "mōj"
of "mōi" sğrifst, blōt dor mit, dat _ōj_ un _oi_ näit mitnanner köönent -
dat tēgenstük tau _ōj_ [o:I] lüd _ôj_ [´o:`oI] un tau _oi_ [OI] lüd dat
_oej_[´O:`OI] un 't gift nārends 'n wissel fan _ōj_ nó _oi_ - aläien in dit
äien gefal ?).
Kumpelment
Holger

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From: "Holger Weigelt" <platt at holger-weigelt.de>
Subject: "Etymology"

> From: Friedrich-Wilhelm Neumann <Fieteding at gmx.net>
> Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2003.08.08 (03) [LS]
>
> Moin, Holger,
>
> Du schreevst:
>
> > > > From: Holger Weigelt <platt at holger-weigelt.de>
> > > > Fan Dīn "Leeigvoaagel" heb ik no nōit höört un wäit ōk niks
wat....
> > Nē, föör 'n kūkūk heb 'k dat wōrd no nōjt hööert, man 't mağ wēsen,
dat
't
> > wat mit "lāj" tau daun het, wat up düütsk "faul" bīdüd. Dan was dat 'n
> > "lâj
> > fööğel", tau lāj tau 't sülvenst ūtbröyden fan sīn aier.
> > (Un mit "lāj" un "lâj" hebben wī glīk no wat föör 't tēma
"phonology".)
> > Kumpelment
> > Holger
>
> Dat lücht' mii bithertau an meersten inn!
> Denn koomt dat an 'n Innen uut Diin Rabeeid!
>
> Dat woord (EFLS): "laj" un' dat Ingelte (E): "lazy" kunnen 't sülvigt
> Oorsprong hebben?!
> In uns LS-Dialekt kenn ick dat ne.
>
> Wees bedankt!
>
> Greutens
>
> Fiete.
> Subject: Etymologie
> Lowlanners, specially Holger;
>
>
> (English below)
>
>
> wo ick Dii jüsst mool foot heff, kann 'ck Dii  wat froogen, watt mii all
> siit längere Tiid in 'n Kopp 'rüm geiht:
>
>
> wiesau heeit (LS): "[Buuern-]Hoff", (UG): "[Bauern-]Hof", (E): "farm
[area]"
> opp Diin (EFLS): "Plaats"?
>
> Kloor- datt Woord koomt von (UG): "Platz", (E): "place" aff, un wii
seggt
in
> uns Dialekt ook aff un ann (LS): "Hoffsteel", (UG): "Hofstelle", (E):
> "farm-place", mann meist jümmer inne Meeint von "lütt" (E): "small".
>
>
> Is dat Frees' schen Infloot, or koomt dat von 't Hollandsche?
>
> ----------
> From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Etymology
>
> Fiete:
>
> Nederlands/Dutch:
>    _plaats_: site, place, spot, situation, location
>    _(boeren)hoeve_: farm, rural estate, homestead
>    _hofste(d)e_: farm, rural estate, homestead
>    _boerderij_: farm, rural estate, homestead
>
> Afrikaans:
>    _(boere)plaas_: farm, rural estate
>
> Westerlauwer ("West") Frisian:
>    _boerepleats_: farm, rural estate, homestead
>    _boupleats_: farm, rural estate, homestead
>    _pleats_: farm, rural estate, homestead
>
> Northern Lowlands Saxon (Low German):
>    _Plaats_ (~ _Platz_): place, spot, location, specific location (e.g.,
a
> port);
>    Eastern Friesland: farm, rural estate, homestead
>
> Oxford English Dictionary (online):
> [ME. place, a. F. place (11th c.) = Pr. plassa, Sp. plaza, Pg. praça,
It.
> piazza, med.L. placia:late L. type *plattia for classical L. platea,
broad
> way, open space, ad. Gr. plateia (sc. hodos) broad way. The L. word had
been
> already taken into Old Northumbrian in the form plæce, plætse, rendering
L.
> platea of the Vulgate; but the history of the current word begins with
the
> adoption of the F. place in sense 2, the mod. use in 1b. being a more
recent
> borrowing from the Romanic langs. From the latter came also MDu.
plaetse,
> Du. plaats, MHG., Ger. platz, MLG. plas, LG. plâts, plâtse, Icel. pláz
(13th
> c.), Sw. plats, Da. plads. Welsh plâs is app. from ME. Place has
superseded
> OE. stow and (largely) stede; it answers to F. lieu, L. locus, as well
as
to
> F. place, and the senses are thus very numerous and difficult to
arrange.
>   With the doubled t of late L. *plattia, cf. the similar phenomenon in
> *plattus PLAT (with which platea was prob. associated); also in *pettia
> PIECE, *pccus PIKE, *pppa PIPE, etc.]
>
> > Is that Frisian or Dutch influence?
>
> Perhaps we've got to be careful here and not think in terms of today's
> nations and countries so much.  My hunch is that _plaats_ 'farm' is not
due
> to Western influence but is due to Eastern Friesland (and its Frisian
> heritage) belonging to the region in which this meaning applies, most
likely
> in which this meaning was *preserved*.  We need to consider the
possibility
> that its absence in some other LS dialects could be due to *German*
> influence.
>
> Regards,
> Reinhard/Ron
>
Moin Fiete !
Dat läest tau föörderst: Tau Dīn fróeğ um dat wōrd "plóts" het Reinhard ja
al mäistbest antwōrt't, dor wil ik nū niks mēer achteran setten.
Man tau Dīn "Leeigvoaagel" is mī no wat in 't sin sğōten:
dat kun näit blōt fan "lāj" kōmen man ōk fan "läigen" (düütsk: "lügen",
engels: "to lie"). Dan was däi kūkūk 'n "läiğfööğel" - dat lüd ja al hóst
sō
as Dīn "Leeigvoaagel". 'n fööğel, däi annern anlüğt un bīdrüğt (mit sīn
aier
in fröem nüsten).
Ik sal mī 'n mól umkīken, of ik dor tau no worens wat ūtfinnen kan, dan
lót
'k wēr fan mī höören.
Kumpelment
Holger

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