LL-L "Etymology" 2003.02.03 (02) [A/E]

[Lowlands-L]

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 L O W L A N D S - L * 03.FEB.2003 (02) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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From: Reynaldo Pimentel Damy Castro <rdamycastro at uol.com.br>
Subject: Afrikaans x Portuguese

Dear Elsie, Ron and all Afrikaans speakers,

First of all, my knowledge of Afrikaans is very limited and elementary: )
However, as far as I could understand it, this post looks pretty interesting
because I've found out some words that can be seen in other  languages
as well.

Elsie Zinsser wrote:

> Ons het in Afrikaans ook nog die woord "iesegrimmig" wat 'buierig';
 'ongeduldig' beteken. 'Grimmig' is ook nog in gebruik.

As for my Afrikaans vocabulary being rather poor, I couldn't figure out the
meaning of 'iesegrimmig / buierig' but I thought that 'ongeduldig (A)' could
be somewhat close to  'ungeduldig (German)' and I'm sure it is since you
mentioned 'Afrikaans_grimmig'_ - (also German/Dutch)

>Hy is 'n buffel / vark / hond. Sy is 'n koei / kat / teef.

Elsie, this looks quite similar to Portuguese, not the words themselves, but
the meaning of the sentences, as they sound rather offensive: ) - Although,
'Hy is 'n hond / Sy is 'n koei_teef - would be more often used (in
Portuguese) - colloquial/vulgar

---- Ron wrote:

> Die woord _grimmig_ het ons ook nog in Nedersaksies (Nederduits,
Platduits)
> en in (Hoog-)Duits; en Engels .
French (n. grimace[s] - v. grimacer) - Portuguese/Spanish (n. grima -
Meaning, rage/fury/hatred) - Swedish and Scandinavian languages, I believe
that _grimas_ might be used. *just curious..* What do you think, Ron?

I've heard that Afrikaans has been influenced mostly by English and Dutch
and a bit of Portuguese (?) as well. Does that make sense? Well, I have this
feeling, especially if we consider that the African coast used to be an
important route for Portuguese seamen centuries ago. *I'm affraid I could be
wrong but I think I've heard something about it on the list. Couldn't find
the posting, though.*

It may be a bit off topic but I'm too curious=)

Thanks a lot! Happy New Year, China!

No Stress - cheers - groete
Reynaldo Damy Castro
(Lowland of) Santos, Brazil

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

Reynaldo,

I will let our Afrikaans specialists have the last word on this.  Let me
just say that besides Portuguese and Latin, the probably more significant
Romance language influence in Afrikaans is French.  This includes both
French influences in the languages of the Low Country languages absorbed
prior to emigration to Southern Africa and French influences specific to
Afrikaans, contributed by the many Huguenots that settled in Africa with the
"Dutch" and later became Afrikaans speakers.

I wonder if, besides Afrikaans-Portuguese contacts in Africa, there were
already some Portuguese influences in Dutch, specific to the Netherlands'
large cities (and also possible Portuguese loans in Lowlands Saxon of Emden,
Hamburg and other North German port cities) in which predominantly Prtuguese
Sephardic Jews predominantly found refuge from the Inquisition on the
Iberian Peninsula.

I am fairly confident that _grimas_, _Grimasse_, _grimace_ etc. are French
loans.  Besides _grimace_ and _grimacer_, French has _grimer_ 'to make up
(an actor)', _grimacier_ 'grimacing', 'made up', 'affected', _grimaceries_
'grimaces', 'affectation', _grimage_ 'make-up', etc.  According to the
_Oxford Dictionary_, this group comes from Spanish _grimazo_ 'fright'.
(Might it have come from Occitan or Catalan instead, considering English
dictionaries' propensity to stick with "important" languages?)   I do not
know _grimazo_ in Modern Spanish, but I do know _grima_ 'uneasiness',
'displeasure', 'disgust', and, as you mentioned, the Portuguese equivalent.
I also wonder if there is a connection between this Romance word group and
Germanic *_grim(m-a-z)_ 'severe', 'merciless', 'stern', 'scary', 'fearsome',
'fearful'.

Cheers!
Reinhard/Ron

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