LL-L "Etymology" 2003.02.04 (07) [E]

Tue Feb 4 18:46:32 UTC 2003

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From: Global Moose Translations <globalmoose at t-online.de>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2003.02.04 (05) [D/E]

This mail came with a bunch of attachments, mostly named after Greek
letters. The text does not refer to any attachments. What are they, and is
it safe to open them?

Gabriele Kahn

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

Lowlanders,

Gabriele, Lowlanders,

The attachments where my mistake, and I apologize.  I had copied and pasted
the Greek script words from a dictionary and did not realize until now that
they were GIF graphics rather than genuine font, and the mail program
attached those.  There is no need to open them, but if you do, it should be
safe.

Here is the paragraph without graphics:

However, Arabic received the word from Greek or Latin: Greek πραικόκιον
_praikókion_
> πρεκόκια _prekókia_ > βερικόκκια _berikókkia_ > Modern  βερύκκοκο
_beríkokko_, and Greek
got it from Latin _praecoqquus_ "the early ripening one".

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

----------

From: burgdal32admin <burgdal32 at pandora.be>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2003.02.03 (02) [A/E]

> From: Reynaldo Pimentel Damy Castro <rdamycastro at uol.com.br>
> Subject: Afrikaans x Portuguese
>
> Dear Elsie, Ron and all Afrikaans speakers,
>
> First of all, my knowledge of Afrikaans is very limited and
> elementary: )
> However, as far as I could understand it, this post looks pretty
> interesting
> because I've found out some words that can be seen in other  languages
> as well.
>
> Elsie Zinsser wrote:
>
>> Ons het in Afrikaans ook nog die woord "iesegrimmig" wat 'buierig';
>  'ongeduldig' beteken. 'Grimmig' is ook nog in gebruik.
>
> As for my Afrikaans vocabulary being rather poor, I couldn't figure
> out the
> meaning of 'iesegrimmig / buierig' but I thought that 'ongeduldig (A)'
> could
> be somewhat close to  'ungeduldig (German)' and I'm sure it is since
> you
> mentioned 'Afrikaans_grimmig'_ - (also German/Dutch)
>
>> Hy is 'n buffel / vark / hond. Sy is 'n koei / kat / teef.
>
> Elsie, this looks quite similar to Portuguese, not the words
> themselves, but
> the meaning of the sentences, as they sound rather offensive: ) -
> Although,
> 'Hy is 'n hond / Sy is 'n koei_teef - would be more often used (in
> Portuguese) - colloquial/vulgar
>
> ---- Ron wrote:
>
>> Die woord _grimmig_ het ons ook nog in Nedersaksies (Nederduits,
> Platduits)
>> en in (Hoog-)Duits; en Engels .
> French (n. grimace[s] - v. grimacer) - Portuguese/Spanish (n. grima -
> Meaning, rage/fury/hatred) - Swedish and Scandinavian languages, I
> believe
> that _grimas_ might be used. *just curious..* What do you think, Ron?
>
> I've heard that Afrikaans has been influenced mostly by English and
> Dutch
> and a bit of Portuguese (?) as well. Does that make sense? Well, I
> have this
> feeling, especially if we consider that the African coast used to be an
> important route for Portuguese seamen centuries ago. *I'm affraid I
> could be
> wrong but I think I've heard something about it on the list. Couldn't
> find
> the posting, though.*
>
> It may be a bit off topic but I'm too curious=)
>
> Thanks a lot! Happy New Year, China!
>
> No Stress - cheers - groete
> Reynaldo Damy Castro
> (Lowland of) Santos, Brazil
>
> ----------
>
> From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Etymology
>
> Reynaldo,
>
> I will let our Afrikaans specialists have the last word on this.  Let
> me
> just say that besides Portuguese and Latin, the probably more
> significant
> Romance language influence in Afrikaans is French.  This includes both
> French influences in the languages of the Low Country languages
> absorbed
> prior to emigration to Southern Africa and French influences specific
> to
> Afrikaans, contributed by the many Huguenots that settled in Africa
> with the
> "Dutch" and later became Afrikaans speakers.
>
> I wonder if, besides Afrikaans-Portuguese contacts in Africa, there
> were
> already some Portuguese influences in Dutch, specific to the
> Netherlands'
> large cities (and also possible Portuguese loans in Lowlands Saxon of
> Emden,
> Hamburg and other North German port cities) in which predominantly
> Prtuguese
> Sephardic Jews predominantly found refuge from the Inquisition on the
> Iberian Peninsula.
>
> I am fairly confident that _grimas_, _Grimasse_, _grimace_ etc. are
> French
> loans.  Besides _grimace_ and _grimacer_, French has _grimer_ 'to make
> up
> (an actor)', _grimacier_ 'grimacing', 'made up', 'affected',
> _grimaceries_
> 'grimaces', 'affectation', _grimage_ 'make-up', etc.  According to the
> _Oxford Dictionary_, this group comes from Spanish _grimazo_ 'fright'.
> (Might it have come from Occitan or Catalan instead, considering
> English
> dictionaries' propensity to stick with "important" languages?)   I do
> not
> know _grimazo_ in Modern Spanish, but I do know _grima_ 'uneasiness',
> 'displeasure', 'disgust', and, as you mentioned, the Portuguese
> equivalent.
> I also wonder if there is a connection between this Romance word group
> and
> Germanic *_grim(m-a-z)_ 'severe', 'merciless', 'stern', 'scary',
> 'fearsome',
> 'fearful'.
>
> Cheers!
> Reinhard/Ron
Hello
I would like to add some other remarks:
Grimace , old French= grimuche (end 12th century), which means grotesk
figure, comes  from the francique (old V) *grima, = mask,spirit.
"(se) grimer" is a verbe that  only exists from1827 (to ridle ones face
, in 1829 occurs  the actual meaning).
Other words in French: grimaçant (1694), grimacer (1611), grimacier
(1580),grimacerie (1668).(La Rousse,  dictionnaire d'étymologie)
Which doesn't mean that we weren't infuenced by the French word.
In V we have "grijm(sel)/grim(sel) meaning something black. A "grimel"
is a black cow.  "Grijm" is also the residue of firing in the chimney.
"Grijmte"=a disaese in the cornfield , blackening of the corn.
"Grimmen"= to be very angry and making a grimmy noice (onomatopee).

Groetjes
Luc Vanbrabant
Oekene

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