LL-L "Lexical usage" 2003.02.06 (02) [S]

[Lowlands-L]

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From: John M. Tait <jmtait at wirhoose.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Lexical usage" 2003.02.04 (13) [E/S]

Andy wrate:

>Nou tae translatin thae examples: Assumin a canny bodie writin siclike
>screeds wad haud wi uissage that's pairt o general Scots an no parteeclar
>tae ony dialect we micht hae:
>
>> 'The meenister gied oot the orra answer but maistlins she screivit aw the
>> questions doon.
>> (Scots Tung Wittins, 111)
>
>Fae the defineetions abuin A canna feegur thon ane at aw. A jalouse it
>ettles at meanin 'gave the odd or occasional answer' fae orra = peculiar =
>odd

Ay - I dout we hae a case o dictionar draigin here. 'Antrin' is the naitural
word.
>
>> 'Fae the submissions ingaithered, it is evident that monolingualism has
>been
>> lookit on by British society as the orra standart.'
>
>Fae the defineetions abuin A canna feegur that ane at aw. The English
>oreeginal haed "normal standard" tho gaun bi Nr. 2 abuin orra is the exact
>opposite.

Ay - again, like I sayed, a oxymoron.
>
>> 'In his submission, Matthew Fitt states there gey few weys Scots is or
can
>> be teachit in the noo: (1) lippenin on the orra lane teacher takkin an
>> interest in Scots, '
>
>A teacher is a bodie sae an orra lane teacher maun be ane that's aw thir
>lane an is "spare, not occupied or in uise at any given moment or for any
>particular purpose, at a loose end"
>or thair job is "casual, odd, of an unskilled auxiliary nature". Weel
thon's
>no awfu mensefu things tae say aboot teachers tho some schuil bairns or
>politeecians micht gree wi't. The oreeginal English haed "individual
>teacher"

Ay - wrang meanin aathegither.
>
>> ' Integration o initiatives is best won til wi the oncome o a Leids
Policy
>> for Scotland (see Australia an Sooth Africa), that estaiblishes an orra
>> framewark for the bringin oot o the leids o Scotland an for their
>provision
>> in education, local government an ither public sectors.'
>
>An orra frameark wad shuirly be ane that's "worthless, rejected, shabby,
>dirty, slatternly, low, course" aw o whit can be cried 'common' in English
>"of little value, vulgar, of low degree". Richt eneuch the English
oreeginal
>haed "common framework" tho A jalouse thon wisna whit the oreeginal wis
>ettlin at pittin ower.

Again it means nearhaund the opposite - a 'normal framework' is ane at's
supposed ti be the acceptit ane - the opposite o a 'orra' ane, at wad mean a
'spare' ane, or ane left ower - ane at's _no_ the normal or acceptit ane.
>
>> (Thon anes aa frae the 'licht' translate o the recent report ti the
>> education, cultur an sport comatee.)
>
>Wis thae bodies no creeticisin the 'Hivvy Scots' translate on the grunds
>that bodies wantin a guid grundin in Scots wadna coud unnerstaund it?
>Whit dae ye need a grundin in tae lift siclike? Tho A maun admeet A'm no a
>Scots language expert lik thae bodies sae A micht hae gotten it aw wrang.

I howp it's no mysel ye'v lairnt this sarcasm frae, Andy! Ye coud tak this a
bittie faurer - the 'licht' translate is no sae muckle ane at thaim wi'oot a
guid grundin in Scots can read, as ane at thaim wi'oot a guid grundin in
Scots can write.

>> The raison I'm spierin is at I canna lift thae meanins ava, an I'm
>wonderin
>> if this is hou 'orra' is uised in Central dialects, or if it's no uised
in
>> thae dialects nou, an thir uisses is awin ti  fause analogy wi English
>> 'odd' - tho that wadna expone aa the uisses abuin.
>
>A dinna ken whit its doun tae. Aiblins its no Scots that we collogue anent
>amang oorsels but a hail different language.

Weel, apairt frae this orra (!) sarcasm  - at I howp it's no me at's smittit
ye wi cause it niver did me nae guid :-)> - ye coud hae a guid pynt! In my
comments on the SLRC wabsteid afore the translatin wis yokit til (I see it's
been taen doun nou - Sandy?) I made the pynt at the word 'Scots' wis nou
comin ti be associate wi its maist depletit varieties, wi the ithers bein
pitten by as dialects. Gin this is the kynd o thing at 'Scots' is nou - an
it maun be, gin it's bein pitten (or shoud I say 'pit') forrit bi the Cross
Pairty Group as examplar Scots for offeecial ettles, written bi thaim at is
Scots experts (as thair wabsteid says) - than aiblins whit we speak an write
isna 'Scots' ava. For shuir, gin thon's the Scots meanin o the word 'orra'
than my uiss o't is no Scots.

(I shoud say here at I wis sent copies o baith the 'heavy' an 'licht'
translates - likely ti mak shuir I didna girn aboot thaim efterhaund, efter
thon lang flyte I pat up on the wab! - an I gaed ower thaim leukin for
obvious mistaks like this. I didna concern mysel wi the style o translation,
cause for ae thing I thocht that wad hae been atween the translator an the
editors, an for anither thing I wad niver hae been duin. I haed a hale leet
o things adae wi the 'licht' version, but the ane at wis pitten forrit wisna
chynged nane frae the ane I saw. But than, I gaither they got the editor o A
Tongue in yer Heid - anither expert - ti pruif-read thair ane, sae it maun
be aaricht.

 I think I sayed in my flyte somethin like: wad Scots be standardised bi
thaim at haed aye fleered at standardisation an defined bi thaim at haed a
scunner at defineetion, an it leuks like my spaein wisna faur aff. For want
o onie greement amang thaim at disna gree wi thaim (cf. me an Sandy's recent
threipin aboot spellin) an bi leet-lowpin a version at the war nae time for
oniebodie ti girn aboot the wey at thay girned aboot the ither ane (an wi
hindsicht frae the ither ane makkin gey shuir at thair ane will be the ane
waled) the 'licht' translators can mak the meanin o onie word in Scots be
oniething thay like. Hou lang will it be or the SLD will be quotin thair
writin in dictionars as authorities for the meanin o Scots words, the same
wey at the SND quotes - weel, whitiver langage it is I speak?)

John M. Tait.

http://www.wirhoose.co.uk

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