LL-L "Phonology" 2003.02.03 (08) [E/S]

[Lowlands-L]

======================================================================
 L O W L A N D S - L * 08.FEB.2003 (01) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
 http://www.lowlands-l.net  * admin at lowlands-l.net * Encoding: Unicode UTF-8
 Rules & Guidelines: http://www.lowlands-l.net/rules.htm
 Posting Address: lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org
 Server Manual: http://www.lsoft.com/manuals/1.8c/userindex.html
 Archives: http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/lowlands-l.html
=======================================================================
 You have received this because you have been subscribed upon request.
 To unsubscribe, please send the command "signoff lowlands-l" as message
 text from the same account to <listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org> or
 sign off at <http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html>.
=======================================================================
 A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
 L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
 S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
=======================================================================

From: Holger Weigelt <platt at holger-weigelt.de>
Subject:  "Phonology"

Hello all !
Once again I considered the facts having been discussed around the Afrikaans
word _Appelkkos_ (apricot) which in Eastern Friesland Low Saxon is spoken
_apperkôs_ as I told.
I cannot decide on the Afrikaans word being a phonological adaptation or an
etymological misinterpretation linking this kind of fruit with apples but in
EFLS there is no feeling of any link between _apperkôs_ and _appel_. It is
obviously a matter of phonology but I couldn't find out yet what it really
is. EFLS speakers have no problem with the word _Aprikose_ when speaking
German but if they speak EFLS in traditional style it is impossible to
pronounce such a word (to explain "traditional style": nowadays EFLS is
highly contamined with German and many speakers won't change loans due to
phonetical rules any more).
The problem seems to originate somewhere in the clusters _pr_ or _pri_.
Initial _pr_ or _pri_ occurs in EFLS words but possibly _pr_ inside a word
must be divided by a linking vowel.
We might get the impression that it is a general problem of _consonant + ri_
if we compare the adverbial endings in German and EFLS  (G)_rig or _rich /
(EFLS) _erğ .
examples: (G) schläfrig, (EFLS) slóperğ; (G) klapprig, (EFLS) klapperğ
(but also with other consonants: klatterğ; sludderğ; stakkerğ; krullerğ
etc.)
But we have other words like (the town of) Aurich (EFLS: Auerk) or (G) Essig
(EFLS: ēterğ) and many more which can make us believe that it has to do with
_rig_ (or _rich_ and _rik_) instead of the former discussed _pri_.
I do not recognize any solution yet but possibly someone can help or give
examples from other lowlands languages which can help to explain the
mechanism in question.
Kind regards
Holger

----------

From: Críostóir Ó Ciardha <paada_please at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject:  LL-L "Etymology" 2003.02.07 (14) [S]

My dear Brisbane-based Tom wrote: "on 8/2/03 2:07, Criostoir O Ciardha
wrote:
True fur Glesca an roond aboot thair but us Lothianites yaise the guid auld
gloa//ul stoap in it.'wa//er' Dinnae ken hoo tae dae this yin right. We dae
this wi wurds o' like ilk sic as 'bu//er."

Wasn't me. Perhaps you confuse me with the *other* Gaelic-speaking Celtic
Chris on the list, Crisdean Mac Fheargais (or Criostóir Mac Fearghasa as his
name would be in Irish). I don't write Scots, I just observe it with
pleasure.

Criostóir.

----------

From: John M. Tait <jmtait at wirhoose.co.uk>
Subject:  LL-L "Etymology" 2003.02.07 (14) [S]

Tom wrate:

>True fur Glesca an  roond aboot thair but us Lothianites yaise the guid
auld
>gloa//ul stoap in it.'wa//er' Dinnae ken hoo tae dae this yin right. We dae
>this wi wurds o'  like ilk sic as 'bu//er.

Is the 'a' afore the glottal pronunced like the 'a' in English 'water' - ie,
like it wis written 'wo'er' or 'wau'er' - or like the 'a' in English
'batter'?

It comes as a surprise ti some fowk ti lairn at the East Coast uises glottal
stops in words whaur Glesca fowk disna. The war aince a hotel in Fife wi the
't' riven aff the sign, sae it read 'HO EL'. My faither in law - at cam frae
Glesca but bade in Fife - uised ti lauch at this, cause it wis the wey
Fifers spake. But whan I sayed did Glesca fowk no speak like that, he sayed
no, that wad be haurd ti pronunce. It wad appear at Glesca uises the glottal
juist efter the stress - eg: 'wa'er', 'bu'er', whaurbyes Fife uises it afore
tae, in words like 'ho'el'.

This illustrates anither thing - glottal stops is no 'lazy' or 'slovenly'
speak, like teachers is likely still tellin bairns. My faither in law fand
it haurd ti say in a place whaur his dialect didna hae it, an I finnd _onie_
glottal stop mair haurder ti say nor 't'.

John M. Tait.

http://www.wirhoose.co.uk

==================================END===================================
* Please submit postings to <lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org>.
* Postings will be displayed unedited in digest form.
* Please display only the relevant parts of quotes in your replies.
* Commands for automated functions (including "signoff lowlands-l") are
  to be sent to <listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org> or at
  <http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html>.
=======================================================================