LL-L "Language varieties" 2003.02.22 (01) [E/F/LS]

[Lowlands-L]

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From: Brooks, Mark <mark.brooks at twc.state.tx.us>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2003.02.21 (07) [E]

Since the 'sch' is evidently so unique to Dutch speakers, how is it
pronounced to save your life?

Mark

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From: Peter Meylof <p.meylof at planet.nl>
Subject: Hollaandse invlood

Moi Loaglaanders,

Ik heb völ metkreegn van mie oale leu en van mie grootoaldern. Mie
grootva sprök ne skier soort Twentsch. He proatn bieveurbeeld nog van ne
'eernd', wat deselde betekenis hef as in it Engels: 'errand'. Kent se
dit woord ok an ginder sied van nen poal?

It is so in Twenthe dat mien genneratie a ne stuk minder 'platpröt' dan
de genneratie doarveur. Dat hef völ te maakn met skaamte veur de eegn
Sproake. De Moadersproake wörn laang seen as 'inferieur' um ne skier
Twentsch woord te gebroekn. Noe an de dag seej toch nen betje ne
ummezwaai komn. Meer leu goat gröts op hunne Sproake. Da ma'k wa geern
liejn. It sol mie begrootn as oonse sproake ferloorn gung.

Ik deank dat datselde skaamtegeveul de oorzaak d'r van is wes, dat oons
Twentsch 'verhollaandst' is. Veur mien eegn sal ik d'r aals an doon, um
oonse sproake nit ferloorn te loatn goan.

Se bint noe bezig nen biebel in it Twentsch te vertaaln. Ik heb ok a ne
nummer van 'Asterix en Obelix' in it Twentsch in mien besit. Noe mut it
toch nit gekker wörn!!! Wat die maffe Tukkers al wa nit doot um dee
Sproake hoog te hoaln. Apart folk, die Tukkers. Joa, ik weet wa.

Hebt se bie oeleu ok van dit soort kraanke acties? Loa heurn.

Heanig an doon en Goodgoan,

Peter

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Language varieties

Peter (baovn):

> Hebt se bie oeleu ok van dit soort kraanke acties? Loa heurn.

Ou, haau-ouha!  Tjao, Peter.  Doar givt 't oep dei "Pruussche" zied meir as
noug voen, tou veel um jum aal oeptouteln!  Dat is 'n heil aanner themao.

Vruntliche gruitns,
Reinhard/Ron
(broek dei ein dei aanner)

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From: Wim <wkv at home.nl>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2003.02.21 (07) [E]

>From wim wkv at home.nl

Hi!

About sch and sk...In most Saxon dialects in the Netherlands one would
say skool in stead of school, skoe in stead of schoen, etc. But we can
pronounce the sch. It is however not used in words.

Moi!

Ovver Sk en sch...   in de meeste saksische dialekten, ier in nederland,
wöd sk gebrüükt, en gien sch. Wie zegng skoole en gien school, skoo, en
gien schoen. Enz.   Wie könt de sch wè zeng, maar de sch wöd nie gebrüük
in woorn. En meestal w"d de  oo in skoole en skoo , üüt'esprööken as ,
oe of U in 't düüts

Well I never write any thing in my own dialect, so Ii used German
spelling more or less.
I hope any body can brew any thing out of this..

Wim.
[Wim Verhoofd]

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From: Stella en Henno <stellahenno at hetnet.nl>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2003.02.21 (06) [D/LS]

> From: Peter Meylof <p.meylof at planet.nl>
> Subject: Nederduits-Fries
>
> Moi Loaglaanders,
>
> Ik heb hier veur mie: Atlas van de Europese Talen, Geschiedenis en
> Ontwikkeling. Skreewn deur Victor Stevenson. Ik citeer:
>
> "Nederduits werd gesproken vanaf de Noordzee tot halverwege de Elbe. Het
was
> de taal van de Saksers, de Friezen -wier dialect overigens toen al een
eigen
> karakteristieke vorm begon aan te nemen- en de Franken die leefden in het
> gebied van de benedenloop van de Rijn en in Vlaanderen." Eende citaat.
>
> It geet mie um dat sinneke -wier....nemen-. Mut ik hier noe oet
concludeern,
> dat Freysk en Saksisch twee takn bint, ontstoan oet it Nederduuts, woarin
it
> freisk een dialect neumt wördt? Of mut ik noe annemn dat it Freysk sich as
> dialect hef afsplitst moar sien wortels hef in it Saksisch?
>
> Leu, deank effen met mie met en loat mie weetn wat oeleu hiervan feend en
> wat ieleu weet hieroawer.
>
> Avast weer donders bedankt.
>
> Goodgoan,
>
> Peter

Dit is yndie wat betizend [verwarrend]. My tinkt dat Stevenson mei
_Nederduits_ wat oars betsjut as datst tinkst: nammentlik "al it
Westgermaansk dat net de Heechdútske lûdferskowing [p > pf/f, t > ts/s
esfh.] trochmakke hat". Ynearsten besiket er it Nederlânsk te pleatsen foar
it Dútsk oer, om dêrnei it plak fan it Nederlânsk binnen dizze "Nederduitse"
rêstgroep te beskieden [bepalen].
Mar dêrbinnen binne fansels ek wer grutte ferskillen, en feroaringen fine
sa'n bytsje op it selde stuit plak. Yn 'e tiid fan 'e Heechdútske
lûdferskowings krigen de tongslaggen oan 'e igge fan 'e Noardsee al eigen
skaaimerken dy't ôfwykten fan 'e oare Westgermaanske farianten, en it
Saksysk wie der foar in greot part ek by belutsen, en hat in deel fan dy
feroarings ek meimakke. Letter binne guont derfan wer ferdwûn, mar spoaren
binne der noch fan te finen. En it Angelsaksysk stamt no krekt út dit
gebiet, wat de measte oerienkomsten fan it Aldingelsk (en, oerurven, it
Nijingelsk) mei it Aldfrysk en delen fan it Aldsaksysk ferklearje kin.  En
de ferskillen wiene doe navenant lyts, mar binne troch de lettere isolaasje
fan Greot-Brittanje en alderhanne steatskundige ûntjouwingen grutter wurden.

Henno Brandsma

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From: Dan Prohaska <daniel at ryan-prohaska.com>
 Subject: Nedersaksisch-Anglosaksisch

Dear All

If you check the archives, I wrote some information on the relationship of
Frisian, English and Low German. A lengthy article I had found a few years
ago, about two months ago. Look it up, I`m sure you`ll find some interesting
aspects.

Dan

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