LL-L "Names" 2003.02.27 (13) [E]

Thu Feb 27 22:25:05 UTC 2003

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From: Friedrich-Wilhelm Neumann <Friedrich-Wilhelm.Neumann at epost.de>
Subject: LL-L "Names" 2003.02.25 (06) [E]

Hi, all of You,

Allison:

> From: Allison Turner-hansen <athansen at arches.uga.edu
<mailto:athansen at arches.uga.edu>>
> Subject: The name "Angles" [E]
>
> Dear Lowlanders,
> The tribal name "Angles", according to two dictionaries I
> consulted, was Latin, invented by Tacitus. He called them that because of
> the angular shape of their homeland, it is said. We know that at some
> point the Angles called themselves that, hence "English". This seems to
> me to be quite odd. What was their name for themselves? Why would they
> adopt an outsider's designation? Could this explanation be a mistake?
> Perhaps they already called themselves "Angles", but with a different
> meaning, and Tacitus drew his own false conclusion. If the latter is
> true, could the name "Angles" somehow be derived from "Ing"? I would
> appreciate any thoughts you might have on the subject.
>
> Thanks,
> Allison Turner-Hansen

Helge:

>From: Helge Tietz <helgetietz at yahoo.com <mailto:helgetietz at yahoo.com>>
>Subject: LL-L "Names" 2003.02.25 (01) [E]
>
>Fact is that the area to the East of Flensborg in
>Slesvig-Holsten is still called "Angel", simply
>meaning the land of the Angles, this is the area in
>Jutland where the Angles origionated, most of this
>Angles left their homeland in the 6th century and went
>either to England or Saxonia-Anhalt/Thuringia, the
>area was occupied by Danes and Swedes who retained the
>name of the area, hence the area is still called
>"Angel" (or in German "Angeln") to this day. I have
>the impression that the name "Angles" is older than
>Tacitus's descriptions but what the exaxt meaning is
>is in dispute.

Ron:

>From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com <mailto:sassisch at yahoo.com>>
<Allison,
>
>I have long been under the impression that the etymology of the name
"Angel"
>(> "Anglo-") is unknown. An area in northernmost Germany, around
>Flensborg/Flensburg and along the German-Danish border is still known as
>_Angeln_.
>
>If various reports can be trusted, there was confusion between "Angels" and
>"angels" already in antiquity:
>
><quote>

>(common era) with the arrival of the Roman missionary St Augustine on the
>Isle of Thanet in Kent. The missionaries were sent
>
>out on the orders of Pope Gregory, legend says that Pope Gregory, before
>becoming Pope, noticed some fair-haired boys in a slave market in Rome, and
>enquired where they were from. He was told that they were Angles and also
>Heathen, to which (Pope) Gregory replied, "Non Angli, sed angeli", "Not
>Angles but angels", and on becoming Pope he despatched the missionaries t
>convert the Anglo-Saxons.

Never ending story!
Well- I tried some postings about this in last summer.

Definitely- Tacitus didn't know "angels" at all; they didn't exist in the
pre-christian times of Roman mythology.
I didn't dare to go to (E) "angle", though we still use (LS) "Enkel", [(G)
"Winkel"] in our dialect.

Perhaps the (G) "Angeln" did, etymologically, belong to Scandinavia, with
another history of shifting. At Danish times Schleswig-Holstein (where we
still find "Angeln") was considered to be geographically part of
Scandinavia. (Allison: what does "Ing" mean- it really sounds Scandinavic?)

I never heard about that Saxon-Anhalt-version, Helge! It sounds very
interesting, but- as far as I know- it's (much later) connected with the
famous "Heinrich der Löwe", (E) "Henry the Lion" (13th century), member of
the family of the "Welfen", King and Earl of Saxonia and Bavaria and
opponent of Kaiser Friedrich I.
It's a very complicated part of german/germanic history, I'd be glad when
corrected!

I also did learn that folcloristic stuff of "hair like an angel" and so on;
maybe, there is some truth in it, Ron.

It's still very interesting for me to hear somethting new about the mystere
of "Hengist" and "Horsa".

Best regards

Fiete.

----------

From: Peter Meylof <p.meylof at planet.nl>
Subject: Names

Moi Loaglanders,

Moi Reinhard,

Kun ie mie wel helpn met mien achternoam Meylof? Joarenlang is d'r a nen
hoop oawer te doon in de familie.

Ne Journalist bie Dagblad Tubantia hef nen betje an 't seukn wes en den
hef 't as folgt oetdach. It eerste deel 'MEY' komt van it woord 'megin'.
In Oald-germaans/saksische betekent dat 'sterk'. It tweede deel 'LOF' is
ne verbastering veur 't woord 'wolf'. Dus met 'n vrachje fantasie d'r
bie, mut it sovöl beteekn as 'sterke wolf'. Hier en doar bint d'r wat,
dee so hunne twiefels oawer de bevindingn van den besn man.

Umdat de noam Meylof skienbaar ne Oald-germaans/saksische achtergroond
hef, bint d'r misskien wat leu hier op de webstek, dee mie wieder helpn
kunt.

Kun ie, of kan ene van dee aandere Loaglaanders, mie wellicht wieder helpn?

Avast donders bedankt.

Heanig an doon en goodgoan,

Peter

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com <mailto:sassisch at yahoo.com>>
Subject: Names

Leyve Peter,

By Dyn naam bün ik my ook nich seker, kan man bloots gissen.

As ik Dyn nanaam tou 't eyrste maal lees', daar verstünd ik em wöyrdlich as
(Hollandsch) "meiloof" (Düytsch "Mailaub"). By 't bedüyden vun "mey" (in
Noorddüytschland "may") kan 't wesen, dat nich dey maand (dey maymaand)
meynd is man dey boum: dey bark, dey barkenboum (Hollandsch "berkeboom",
Düytsch "Birke(nbaum)", Ingelsch "birch (tree)"). In olde tyden seggen dey
lüyd' vaken "mayboum" tou 'n "barkenboum" un "may" tou 'n taakje, twygje or
kransje vul vrisch, gröyn barkenlouv ("berkeloof"), ook "maylouv"
("meiloof") nöymd. In 't ("Hoog"-) Düytsche seen sey in olde tyden ook "Mai"
daar tou, so als in 't leyd:

     Ich ging in den Busch und brach mir einen Mai,
     Der Mai und der war grüne.

Dat bedüydt, dat eyn in d'n barkenbusch or barkenwoold güng un 'n taak or
twyg mit vörjaarsgröyn, "maylouv", vun 'n barkenboum plük. Ook
vundagigendaags segt wy in Düytschland noch "Maigrün" tou barkenlouv in 't
vörjaar, dat junge gröyn, mit dat wy tou Pingsten ("Pinksteren") use hüys'
dekoreyrt.

Nu kan 't goud syn, dat Dyn nanaam gaarniks mit "maylouv" tou doun hett. Wen
"mey" vun "megin" ("stark" or "starkheyd", Hollandsch "macht", Düytsch
"Macht", Ingelsch "might") keym, den kan "loof" ook "loov" ~ "lov"
(Hollandsch "lof", Düytsch "Lob", Ingelsch "praise") bedüyden.

Dat is man bloots eyn wilde gisserey.

Gröytens!
Reinhard/Ron

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