LL-L "Etymology" 2003.07.23 (01) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 23.JUL.2003 (01) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: John Duckworth <jcduckworth2003 at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Idiomatica: More on doei.

Beste Reynhard!


Dear Lowlanders,

I found the article from the Haagsche Courant posted by Gabriele Kahn very
interesting, but the very words around which the anecdote revolves are the
only ones that I fail to understand.

 Would Gabriele or one of the other listers please explain the meaning of
_doeg_ (is it Amsterdam dialect for _dag_ perhaps?), and _de mats_?

Many thanks to Mathieu as well, the Brabant phrase _hoedoe_ might in fact
point to the possible etymology of the phrase. It is intersting that he says
that it doesn't look at all weird to him though, it sounds very strange to
foreign Dutch speakers like myself. But then a phrase like _tarra_  in the
Scouse dialect of English ( the Liverpool or Liverpudlian dialect), which is
no doubt a form of _tata_, would sound equally as weird to a speaker of
English as a second language.

John Duckworth

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From: Dan Ryan Prohaska <daniel at ryan-prohaska.com>
Subject: Idiomatica

Reinhard/Ron wrote:

<A more neutral way of saying good-bye is to say _Adjüüs!_ [?a'djy:s] ~
<[?a'tSy:s] ~ etc., supposedly derived from Castilian (Spanish)
_!Adiós!_
<(probably loaned second- or third-hand by sailors).  Apparently, now
common
<casual German _Tschüß!_ 'Bye!', 'Tata!' was derived from it.

I think <adjüüs> comes from French. I'd say it was borrowed into Low
Saxon at a time when French still pronounced the final /s/. I find it
hard to explain the rounded front vowel if it were derived from Spanish.
Considereing quite a number of other French loans I don't think it's fra
fetched.

Gröytens,
Dan

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From: "Mathieu. van Woerkom" Mathieu.vanWoerkom at student.kun.nl
Subject: etymology
John wrote:

> Would Gabriele or one of the other listers please explain the
> meaning of _doeg_ (is it Amsterdam dialect for _dag_
> perhaps?), and _de mats_?

I checked the Van Dale Ducth Dictionary, and it says that 'doei' is indeed
derived from 'doeg', which is short for 'goeiendag'. Instead of 'doeg',
you
can also say 'daag'.

I'm pretty sure that the Amsterdam dialect also has 'dag' for 'day'...

About 'de mats'...I guess you mean 'de mazzel', which literaly means 'good
luck', but is also used to say goodbye.

In short: 'doei' (bye) is a regular Dutch word which simply comes
from 'goeiendag' (good day)!

hou-je!
Mathieu================================END==================================
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