LL-L "Grammar" 2003.03.01 (04) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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From: Sandy Fleming [sandy at scotstext.org]
Subject: "Grammar"

> From: Ed Alexander <edsells at cogeco.ca>
> Subject: LL-L "Grammar" 2003.02.28 (11) [E]Ian wrote:
>
> At 02:30 PM 02/28/03 -0800, Sandy wrote:
> >I haven't insinuated anything like this.
>
> Perhaps you were tarred by my overly large brush.
>
> >This is a difficult question because I, at least, find the
> >concept of "class" a difficult one to work with. At least
> >where I've lived, there hasn't been any real correlation
> >between money, speech and education that would go together
> >to make a consistent concept of class.
>
> Perhaps "class" is the wrong word.  Perhaps if we look at it more
> inductively:  what, if any, social distinctions can be attributed to those
> who "correct" you when you use "me" in the subjective?  By social
> distinction, this could include occupation, pecking order in a company,
> neighbourhood, reluctance to use an authentic local dialect, etc.

Your question still isn't clear, I'm afraid - what do you
mean by 'use "me" in the subjective'? I _always_ use 'me'
in conjunctions but never use 'me' standing alone as the
subject of a sentence. It's the existence of the conjuction
that's the determinant, not whether it's in the subject of
the sentence. Either way, nobody's ever corrected me on it,
at least not in my adult life. If I heard one adult correcting
another's speech, I'd just think it was impolite.

Of course I'm not talking about a language-learning situation
here - if someone had actually asked me to help them with their
English and I heard them saying "she and I", I'd explain to them
the "her and me" was more usual and "she and I" more affected.

Similarly, people sometimes feel it necessary to correct my
pronunciation because I'm deaf. It's not necessary, but
understandable  :)

Sandy
http://scotstext.org/

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From: Roger Thijs, Euro-Support, Inc. <roger.thijs at euro-support.be>
Subject:  LL-L "Grammar" 2003.02.28 (13) [E]

> From: James Ward <jamesward at earthlink.net>
> Subject: Grammar
> Have any of you noticed that in some Old English texts the Latin names
are inflected in the Latin manner when used in Old English case-specific
constructions?  For example, if the word "amicus" were to be included as
an indirect object in an Old English construction, it would be found as
"amico."  Curious, eh?
> Has anyone noticed this kind of Latin usage in the context of any other
languages?  Well, okay, _Lowlands_ languages...   :)

Yes, in Old Dutch:
a sample
"Ende __Ihesus__ antwerdde den ghenen weder ende seide aldus: Hebbic qualec
gesegt, so ghef prufnesse van din quade, ende hebbic wale gesegt, waromme
sleestu mi dan? Doe seinde Annas __Ihesum__ al gebonden tote Caypham den
beschop."
cf. my web page:
http://home-13.tiscali-business.nl/%7Etpm09245/dutch/diates/diates.htm

In Modern Dutch the latin nominative plural is often accepted as an
alternative to the Dutch plural.
Some samples from the "van Dale" CD Rom
mu-se-um [...] .het; __-s__, __musea__; -pje [...]
cy-clus [...] de (m.); _cycli_, _-sen_ [...]

academicus [...] de (m.) vrouw: academica [...]
Here "van Dale" lists a latin feminine but no plural; I would use
"academici" for plural myself.
Same holds for
medicus [...] vrouw: medica [...]

Regards,
Roger

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