LL-L "Names" 2003.03.03 (04) [E]

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From: burgdal32admin <burgdal32 at pandora.be>
Subject: LL-L "Names" 2003.02.23 (06) [E/LS]

> From: Críostóir Ó Ciardha <paada_please at yahoo.co.uk>
> Subject: LL-L "Names" 2003.02.23 (04) [E]
>
> Luc wrote:
>
> "There is a name in Ireland that intreges me. I live in Oekene a
> village that is part of "Roeselare". I wonder if the city of "Rosslar"
> in your country has any connections in its history with our regions.
> Roeselare and Rosslar are very particular names without any doublures
> somewhere else in the world(If not let me know please).
> In Flemish "Roeselare" means an open place in the woods (lare) for
> horses (ros).The oldest written form is "Roslar" (822)."
>
> Interesting. Thanks for exercising my brain! Unfortunately it is just
> pleasant coincidence, although with a caveat that I will come to.
>
> Rós Láir or Rosslare is a port town in Co. Wexford (Wexford itself
> means
> "waterlogged island" _weis fjord_ in Norse according to the sources I
> have
> consulted), in the extreme south-east of Ireland, with longstanding
> links to
> Wales, manifested today in a busy ferry service.
>
> _Rós_ in Irish has a number of possible meanings depending on the
> topography, but is usually translated 'headland' (it can also mean
> 'wood')
> although in its maximal sense it means 'wooded land sloping toward a
> water
> source, usually a sea'. (My personal perception of Irish _rós_ has been
> contaminated by Cornish, where _rosh_ means, usually, a picturesque
> heavily-wooded cliffside area or a secluded thicket near a stream,
> like a
> meadow.) It this sense it is similar to _leitir_ 'hillside sloping to a
> river where rainwater runs off'.
>
> _Láir_ means simply 'centrally placed, at the centre of, middle'.
>
> Rós Láir therefore means 'central headland' or 'centrally placed
> sea-slope'
> depending on your intepretation. No horses or woods here, sadly!
>
> However, there *is* a tenuous connection to Flemish. Wexford was
> settled in
> 1169 by Anglo-Normans from south Wales - one area of which (if memory
> serves
> me, the Gower) had been heavily settled by Flemings. There can be
> little
> doubt that Flemish-speakers were a part of the retinues that migrated
> to
> Wexford at the time - including, of course, Rosslare - and I am sure
> there
> are many Norman French surnames of Flemish origin or flavour in the
> area.
>

> Go raibh maith agatsa!
>
> Criostóir.

Dear Criostoir,
Thank you for the quick response on my question about my hometown
Roeselare.
Intreged by it,  i went to my local library to looked for some more
books  about the subject.
This is what i found:
The explanation " ros= horse", in the word Roeselare, is no longer
accepted by most scholars.(Shame on me for just following the most
heard story).
The more plausible explanation is:
"roes" = riet, rus (D for  reed or rush), gothic " raus" / high  German
"Reuse".
"lare"= open place in the woods from German hlæ^:ris.
And "lare" is  mostly used for a wet open place.
That explains the whole picture a lot more:
Roeselare was a (dale) region in the middle of the woods, with a lot of
rills and brooks and swamps (march/morass?) arriving at that area.
The swamps have disapeared, but the fundations for a new building must
still be put very deep in the ground. The rills and the brooks  exist
but they mainly flow underground.
The final definition being:
Roeselare= a wet, open place in the woods where reed grows.

And i think that comes also closer to your explanation of Rosslare.

Groetjes
Luc Vanbrabant
Oekene

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