LL-L "Language contacts" 2003.03.26 (05) [E]

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From: Ruud Harmsen <rh at rudhar.com>
Subject: LL-L "Language contacts" 2003.03.26 (04) [4]

R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>:
>http://www.hamburg.de/Behoerden/Pressestelle/sefardenp/ (Sephardim in
>Hamburg! in Portuguese and German)

Which contains:
>E quem, hoje, procurar os testemunhos visíveis da presença
judaica-portuguesa em Hamburgo, vai encontrar apenas os três
cemitérios portugueses, que são, em muitos aspectos, um espelho fiel
da sua presença nesta cidade.
<<

Nice example of the typically portuguese "futuro de subjunctivo" or
also "infinitivo pessoal" which often, but not always coincide.
"E quem, hoje, procurar ...", and who today, might be looking for ..."

I knew about the Amsterdam sephardic Jews, visited the "Joods
Historisch Museum" in Amsterdam, saw the two separate synagogues on
a single square there, one of which is now the museum.
But I didn't know there was also a presence in Hamburg. Live and
learn. Thanks for sharing this. It means a lot to me.
--
Ruud Harmsen  http://rudhar.com/ - update 15 maart 2003

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From: Stan Levinson <stlev99 at yahoo.com>
Subject: LL-L "Language contacts" 2003.03.26 (04) [4]

Ron,
You're utterly amazing!!!  All those links!!! And now
I have to go try all of them (gladly).  Turns out I
had only three of them already, but in return I've got
a couple of more that I THINK weren't on your list,
just to complicate things further:
http://www.sephardicstudies.org
http://www.orbilat.com/Modern_Romance/Ibero-Romance/Spanish-Ladino
http://www.tripod.lycos.es/sevillasefarad/Latino.htm
(though this one wasn't working today)
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Parthenon/7461/judezmo.html
Stan

> From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Language contacts
...
> I, too, regret that there is very little in the way
> of Ladino language
> resources, considering that the language is the
> bearer of a very interesting
> and beautiful collection of cultural varieties and a
> tremendously enchanting
> folksong heritage.

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Language contacts

Ruud,

> Thanks for sharing this. It means a lot to me.

Oh, it's my pleasure, and I am glad it means something to you.

There have been direct links between the Jewish communities of Amsterdam and
Hamburg (and Copenhagen), both Sephardic (“Spanish”) and Ashkenazi
 (“German”).  It was pretty much the same wave of displaced Sephardim that
ended up in Amsterdam and Hamburg.  Some went all the way to Hamburg by sea,
others via Amsterdam and Emden.  Apparently, these two communities kept
intermarrying for a long time, as did the earlier Ashkenazi arrivals, as
described very nicely in the autobiography of Glückel von Hameln, a
17th-century Ashkenazi lady:

Zikhroynes: the memoirs of Glückel of Hameln, translated with notes by
Marvin Lowenthal ; new introd. by Robert S. Rosen, New York : Schocken
Books, 1977,
c1932. ISBN: 0805205721 : 6.95.

Zikhroynes: die Memoiren der Glückel von Hameln, aus dem Jüdisch-Deutsch von
Bertha Pappenheim ; [mit einem Vorwort von Viola Roggenkamp], Weinheim :
Belz Athenäum, 1994. ISBN: 3895470406.

(This is available in Eastern Yiddish and in Hebrew as well.  I am not sure
if there is a Dutch translation.  The original is in Western Yiddish, and I
am still looking for a copy of that ...)

When I say “Hamburg” you need to bear in mind that in most instances I
specifically mean Altona.  Altona used to be a separate city and, along with
most of what is nowadays Schleswig-Holstein, found itself sporadically under
Danish rule.  (This is also the reason that Sephardim founded the earliest
Jewish colonies in Denmark.)  Altona is now a part of Hamburg.  (My mother
was born and raised there, in a lower middleclass neighborhood nearly 50%
Jewish.)  Perhaps because the earlier Jewish population from Portugal was
quite well established and, having been rather beneficial to the development
of the city (having developed a beautiful suburb by the River Elbe), was
rather accepted there, Altona was something of a Jewish haven for quite some
time.  Ashkenazi Jews immigrated to the Lowlands in larger number relatively
late, mostly from the southern parts of Germany, Alsace, Lorraine, etc.
What is now Northern Germany, like the Netherlands, was relatively (and I
mean *relatively*) “safe” for them, in part because the major cities were
ruled less by clerics than by merchants who cared less about people’s
religion and more or less left them alone as long as they did not interfere
with their commercial enterprises -- unless in bad times they needed
scapegoats for their own misfortune and incompetence.  Whenever, such
unsettling times hit Hamburg proper, local Jews would walk across the border
to Altona, usually stay with relatives and lie low until the madness died
down.  This, too, is very interestingly by Glückel (see above).  I recommend
reading it.

Struan Robertson (a Scot?) -- big kudos! - wrote a fascinating, really
excellent online history of Jews in Hamburg:
http://www.rrz.uni-hamburg.de/rz3a035/history.html

Stan, Thanks for the links!  Can't wait to check them out.  Amazing?!  Nah!
Just busy gathering resources that benefit my interests.

By the way, another sort of language contact is that with Turkish in the
Lowlands.  Apparently, actual Germany-specific varieties of Turkish have
been developing in Germany, also in the north.

Cheers!
Reinhard/Ron

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