LL-L "Traditions" 2003.11.12 (11) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

======================================================================
L O W L A N D S - L * 12.NOV.2003 (11) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
http://www.lowlands-l.net * lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net
Rules & Guidelines: http://www.lowlands-l.net/index.php?page=rules
Posting Address: lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org
Server Manual: http://www.lsoft.com/manuals/1.8c/userindex.html
Archives: http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/lowlands-l.html
Encoding: Unicode (UTF-8) [Please switch your view mode to it.]
=======================================================================
You have received this because you have been subscribed upon request.
To unsubscribe, please send the command "signoff lowlands-l" as message
text from the same account to listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org or
sign off at http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.
=======================================================================
A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
=======================================================================

From: Sandy Fleming [sandy at scotstext.org]
Subject: "Traditions"

> From: Thomas <t.mcrae at uq.net.au>
> Subject: LL-L "Traditions" 2003.11.11 (06) [E]
>
> No exactly richt Sandy. I was a medical Entomologist from 1957 until 1995
> and am very familiar with plague epidemiology.
> Much of the initial infestations began from rats leaving ships docked in
> harbours. Rats also were transported around in wagons of foodstuffs for
> great distances and even among personal possessions.
> Main problem though is there is a much worse variant of plague known as
> Pneumonic. This is transmitted by coughs and sneezes and is the
> really fast
> mover once initial reservoirs are established from Xenopsylla
> cheopis fleas

But none of this demonstrates that this is what the Black Death actually
was. Epidemiologists seem to think they know, but there is never any
demonstration that any particular known disease was the Black Death.

> leaving dead rats. This is commemorated in the rhyme by the closing lines
> "Husha! Husha !
> All fall down !'

This is the sort of thinking we should be trying to avoid. We don't know
that the song is actually commemorating the Black Death, so we can't
identify what the Black Death was from the mention of sneezing in the song.

Sandy
http://scotstext.org/

----------

From: Margaret Tarbet <oneko at att.net>
Subject: Traditions

Tom McRae wrote:

>An Scots song of the period commemorates what was probably a case of
>pneumonic...Two well born local girls left town to escape the pestilence
and
>made a small shelter but someone who visited them passed it on anyway.
>
>"Bessie Bell an' Mary Gray, they waur twa bonnie lassies,
>Thay built a bour (bower) oan yoan burn brae (river slope) an' theekit
>(covered) it ower wi rashes (rushes)
>Thay theekit it aw wi rashes green, they theekit it aw wi' heathir,
>But The Pest cam frae the Burgh Toon an' slew thaim baith the gither.
>They thoacht tae lie in Nairn Kirkyaird, amung thair noble kin.
>But noo they lie aboon the brae, an bake aneath the Sin"

I believe it was Child, who listed 'Betsy Bell and Mary Gray' as
Nr 202 in his germinal collection, who remarked in his notes that
it wasn't especially credible that the two women would flee the
plague and  then allow someone from the plague-stricken town
(Perth, if I recall correctly) to come visit them!

There's at least some suggestion that the two young women might
actually have gone away not to escape the plague but (as the
'Ladies of Llangollen' did a century later)  to enjoy what in
19th c. New England was called a 'Boston marriage', and that they
were unaware of the plague til it killed them.  The version of
the song that Yorkshire natives Norma Waterson and her late
sister Lal sang hints at that:

(first v. & chorus)
Betsy Bell and Mary Gray
They were bonnie lasses
Built a bower on yon ben-side
And covered it over wi rushes

Betsy kept the garden gay
Mary kept the pantry
Betsy always had her way
But Mary she had plenty.

(ch)

They covered it over wi rushes green,
Covered it over wi heather
But the plague come from the boro toun--
They buried them both together.

The very heavy, simple, tune to which Lal and Norma sang the song
is the one Bronson considers the likely 17th-c. original.

Margaret

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Traditions

Margaret, Margaret, Margaret ...  You may not post often (enough), but when
you do, you make splashes.  You never cease to amaze me with your vast
knowledge of folkmusic and folksong.

At a Hamburg University site (presented by Garry Gillard and Reinhard
Zierke) there's an interesting text comparsion of Lal & Norma Waterson's
version versus Martin Carthy's version:
http://www.informatik.uni-hamburg.de/~zierke/watersons/songs/betsybelle.html

... and another one of the version of Martin Carthy with Maddy Prior versus
Maddy Prior and Steeleye Span:
http://www.informatik.uni-hamburg.de/~zierke/steeleye.span/songs/betsybellandmarygray.html

Susanne Kalweit of Kiel, Germany, gives a lengthy (English language) review
of descriptions and assertions:
http://mysongbook.de/msb/songs/b/twalasse.html

You see, I'm not the only North German sharing your interest in this stuff,
and, take it of leave it, I'm awarding you today's Lowlands-L golden merit
star.  (I'm sure that makes your day.)  :)

Cheers!
Reinhard/Ron

================================END===================================
* Please submit postings to lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org.
* Postings will be displayed unedited in digest form.
* Please display only the relevant parts of quotes in your replies.
* Commands for automated functions (including "signoff lowlands-l") are
  to be sent to listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org or at
  http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.
=======================================================================