LL-L "Language contacts" 2003.10.04 (02) [E/F]

[Lowlands-L]

======================================================================
L O W L A N D S - L * 05.OCT.2003 (02) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
http://www.lowlands-l.net * lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net
Rules & Guidelines: http://www.lowlands-l.net/index.php?page=rules
Posting Address: lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org
Server Manual: http://www.lsoft.com/manuals/1.8c/userindex.html
Archives: http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/lowlands-l.html
Encoding: Unicode (UTF-8) [Please switch your view mode to it.]
=======================================================================
You have received this because you have been subscribed upon request.
To unsubscribe, please send the command "signoff lowlands-l" as message
text from the same account to listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org or
sign off at http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.
=======================================================================
A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
=======================================================================

From: Kenneth Rohde Christiansen <kenneth at gnu.org>
Subject: LL-L "Names" 2003.10.04 (05) [E]

Actually I don't know how good my source it - but it could be
interesting to look into.

> Do you have that on good authority?
>
> > I expect the Jutish æ could come from Frisian, since they use that in
> > North-Frisian (de -> 'e?)
>
> Why?  Lowlands Saxon (Low German) is "non-rhotic;" e.g., _eer_ (<ehr>)
> [?E:3`] ~ [?e:3`] 'her', 'their'.

Sorry what will you say with that?

Kenneth

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Language contacts

Sorry, Kenneth.  I had wildly jumped a step about in my mind, was thinking
of Jutish _æ_ = Standard Danish _er_ 'is', 'am', 'are' (which may not be
correct).  I had cought the wrong boat there.

Of course you may be on the right track asking if Jutish shift _æ_ for 'the'
may have been inspired by North Frisian (_de_ >) _e_.  I suspect that it
came from either Frisian (more likely?) or Lowlands Saxon (Low German),
given that it is atypical for North Germanic, which has cliticized definite
articles (Standard Danish _-en_, _-et_) where in West Germanic varieties an
article directly precedes a noun (e.g., LS _dat huus'_, Dutch _het huis_, W.
Frisian _it hûs_, Scots _the hoose_ = Danish, Norwegian, Swedish _huset_,
Icelandic _húsið_ 'the house').

Hilsen,
Reinhard/Ron

-----

From: Stella en Henno <stellahenno at hetnet.nl>
Subject: LL-L "Names" 2003.10.04 (03) [E]

> From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Names
>
> Niels Winther wrote:
>
> > This noun has been known and used in the dialects
> > of W. and S. Jutish along The Wadden Sea from where
> > the dikes start (Darum south of Esbjerg).
>
> Is Darum (_-um_) not a Frisian name, and aren't there numerous Frisian
place
> names along the (once North-Frisian-speaking) the southwestern coast of
> Jutland, as there are south of today's Danish-German border?  Has anyone
> done a study of this?  Are there any Frisian traces in the local
> Jutish/Danish dialects?
>
> Hilsen,
> Reinhard/Ron

Dy binne der yndie. Ik haw yn myn Noardfryske boeken (en mear noch dy't ik
út 'e bybleteek lêzen hie) in pear kear lêzen dat de Friezen troch de
Deenske kening nei Sleeswyk-Holstein helle hie fanwegen harren reputaasje op
it mêd fan wetterhúshâlding en dikebou. De Jutske dialekten yn it gebiet (de
Jutten wennen der al, en der ûntstie in mingde befolking, wat noch altyd
bliken docht yn it grutte tal Deensk/Jutske lienwurden yn it Noardfrysk (ei
= net, keere = ride en folle net genôch), mar benammen op it mêd fan
lanboutermen en wetterboutermen hawwe de Friezen in soad ynfloed op it Jutsk
hân.
Grammatikale ynfloed haw ik neat oer lêzen, oars. Mar dat is jin wol foar te
stellen. Men wie der ommers net by..
It Noardfrysk fan dy tiid moat "ka:g" hân hawwe. Is a: > o normaal yn it
Jutsk?
Of is dit lettere ferfanging troch in Nederdútsk lienwurd?

Henno Brandsma

================================END===================================
* Please submit postings to lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org.
* Postings will be displayed unedited in digest form.
* Please display only the relevant parts of quotes in your replies.
* Commands for automated functions (including "signoff lowlands-l") are
  to be sent to listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org or at
  http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.
=======================================================================