LL-L "Language use" 2003.10.06 (13) [E]

Tue Oct 7 01:17:00 UTC 2003

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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: Global Moose Translations <globalmoose at t-online.de>
Subject: LL-L "Language use" 2003.10.04 (13) [E]

Ron,

you got me quite right (although Uilleam also has a point - I'd say "I love
you" more easily in English than in my mother tongue, because in that case
I'd have to really, really, really mean it). But I think you overlooked my
explanation. Minority languages are usually spoken locally, in the family
and with your childhood friends and neighbours. But today's society is very
mobile indeed - who among us here really still lives in the area (s)he grew
up in, especially when that area was somewhere out in the country? So you
don't speak Lower Saxon, Friesian, Scots etc. to new people you meet - only
to your old friends and family from home, and maybe to the rare person who
also happens to be from "back home". So that alone makes it quite intimate
and exclusive - "family business". Also, most minority languages were
ostracized for many years, and even in the very areas where they were spoken
they were only the "second" language, spoken at home and with childhood
friends. More "intimacy" there.

Maybe learning a minority language and trying to speak it to "the locals"
could have a similar effect as approaching a group of hip-hop youngsters and
addressing them in their own particular slang? If you're not one of their
peers in the first place, they'll do anything but open up.

Just a little theory...

By the way, I also knew a family quite well when I was growing up where the
parents and grandparents refused to teach the children to speak Platt - they
wanted a language they could use around them without being overheard. And
their South Lower Saxon Platt was very strong indeed - the spoken words
seemed to have nothing to do with German whatsoever, it was almost
impossible to make out even a few words for somebody who knew only High
German. More very "intimate" use...

Gabriele Kahn

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Language use

Hi, Gabriele!

Thanks for the explanation (above).  It clarifies a lot.  Thanks also for
apparently taking my "challenges" in good humor.  It's all much appreciated.

> I'd say "I love
> you" more easily in English than in my mother tongue, because in that case
> I'd have to really, really, really mean it).

I understand.  I suppose it's the same for me.  I suspect that one reason
for it is that in English you have only one phrase where in German and
Lowlands Saxon (Low German) you can differentiate:

(1) G: Ich liebe dich. LS: Ik leyv' dy.  (LS use very, very rare, and very
serious)
(2) G: Ich habe dich lieb. LS: Ik hev dy leyv.

(1) implies having fallen in love, including an erotic component.
(2) implies platonic love, used among relatives and to some extent among
platonic friends.  In LS there are two more emphatically platonic variants:
(1) _Ik hold vun dy_ and (2) _Ik hev dy geyrn_ (also German _Ich habe dich
gern_), denoting something more akin to English _I like you_.

What you wrote about "intimate" use is something I notice a lot among
immigrants (and certain other minorities) anywhere in the world.  The more
public use of immigrant language is likely to be frowned upon the more
hidden it will be.  In such types of climate the languages are also less
likely to be passed on to the next generations, and they are likely to
become true secret languages, often used among parents when the children are
not supposed to understand, just as in your example of LS.  I witnessed this
also to a glaring degree among friends in Israel where the parents used
Polish to keep information from the youngest children, and used Yiddish when
they wanted to keep information from all their children.  (I later found out
that the children understood much more than they were supposed to ...)
These children grew up in an environment (in a kibbutz) in which immigrant
language use was tolerated only if it was confined to foreign-born people
and was toned down, preferably avoided altogether in public.  The
native-born generation and those that entered the country when they were
very young were supposed to belong wholly and totally to a new nation,
generations free of the shackles, trappings, habits, sounds and attitudes of
the _galuth_, i.e., the Jewish diaspora.  Americans, Canadians, Australians,
New Zealanders and many South Africans among us will recognize commonalities
with situations in their respective countries, especially going back to
before, say, 1970.  West Europeans are also experiencing this lately.

What do these situations and the case of Lowlands Saxon (or Scots, etc.)
have in common?  Oppressive climates.  Their use is frowned upon, at least
in certain situations and environments.  They have this in common with
low-prestige sociolects, such as Missingsch and various slangs.  Society
does not condone their use or associates their use with something negative.
Thus they turn into hidden or secret languages.  Society knows that they are
being used but expects that their use be kept away from public sight and
earshot.  My theory is that speakers of these languages are deeply aware of
this and try to live with the dichotomy of love of the language on the one
hand and compliance with tabooizing social norms on the other hand, thus
leading a type of double-life, and many try to reconcile this by convincing
themselves that the language is "private," which puts a more "positive" spin
on it than "oppressed," "suppressed," "forbidden," "hidden" or "secret"
would.

As I have explained on a couple of earlier occasions, I became much more
aware of this during my last two visits to Northern Germany.  People had
become aware of my engangement and use of LS, and a few had read my
publications.  In the relative privacy of small meetings, a number of mostly
older neighbors, acquaintances and such did what I can only call "coming out
to me."  (For those of you who are not familiar with this relatively young
phrase, let me add that it refers to "coming out of the closet," namely
informing someone of one's homosexuality.)  These were people I had
previously, while growing up, heard speak only German, and several were what
we call _vornehm_ (distinguished) and _etepetete_ (prim and proper and
fussy).  They now trusted me with the apparently privileged information that
their true native language was not German but LS, and I was almost shocked
to hear them speak it suddenly, to be presented with that side of them, this
"private," "intimate" side, revealed like a dirty secret to me once I was
assumed sympathetic and "in on it."

Whichever way you turn it, and whatever else you may call it, in my opinion
it all boils down to oppression.  Oppression may have been lifted
officially, but people's feelings and attitudes have a hard time adjusting
to this.  Perhaps they still lack trust.  Social judgment is still too
strong.  Yesterday's stigma cannot be removed overnight.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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