LL-L "Orthography" 2003.10.06 (12) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 06.OCT.2003 (12) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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From: Anja Meyfarth <anja-meyfarth at t-online.de>
Subject: LL-L "Orthography" 2003.10.02 (01) [E/LS]

Moin Lowlanders!

>> You are right. I'm trying to use it only when it is derived from an old
g.
>
> Could you give us a couple of examples?

Yes, of course. One example is "gahn" (to go) derived from Germanic
"gengan". There are others as well which I cannot recollect in so short a
time. But I avoid it espacially in "daan" (to do) where it is seen quite
commonly.

Greetings from Kiel,

Anja

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From: Anja Meyfarth <anja-meyfarth at t-online.de>
Subject: LL-L "Orthography" 2003.10.02 (01) [E/LS]

Moin Lowlanders!

Holger wrote:

> "Diesel" !?  What's the difference to the orthography we just discussed?
> "Diesel" (it should be "dissel" = thistle G. Distel) uses and promotes the
> same odd German based orthography as the "Ostfriesische Landschaft" does.
> Maybe deep in their hearts the writers may know better (
> in the past I discussed the matter with them and received some
explanations
> that made me believe so) but in their paper they explicitly follow the
rule
> to make the written word as German as possible.

The main point to me is that they are NOT following the rules by Sass as a
rule.

> If we want to do something good for the language to ensure its further
life
> we should have a standardized orthography because in future the role of
> written texts can potentially increase while the spoken language decreases
> and a literary language with a fixed and standardized orthography will be
> held in a higher esteem and regarded as a language of its own in
difference
> to an only spoken one which could hardly be written with a provisional
> system which originally is created for an other language.

Standardization is very difficult to make acceptable. You are aware how
different the dialects sound to the NativeSpeaker's ears. And they want to
write what they are speaking. You won't convince a speaker of Dithmarschen
of your orthography. As a matter of fact you don't convince me, being an
author myself. Your spelling is very hard to read to me! I'm speaking a kind
of "Mittelholteinisches Ausgleichsplatt" mainly taken from the west coast of
Schleswig-Holstein and from the area around Kiel. And I'm using words from
other parts as well (like "faken"  = "often"). So, I'm more standardized
than others.  And I don't believe that a standardized orthography would ehlp
the language. The only thing to do is using it in everyxday's live and, if
you're an author, try to write poetry and prose of a high quality level. A
standardized orthography will develop it let to do so. English orthography
has never been put into an official writing by law and it works as well as
good as a grown orthography can work.

> If then we are on the way to create such a standard orthography why not
> finally throw away all the German burden not only fixing one obligatory
way
> of writing for every word but give it a look that also fits the demands of
> its special phonology and grammar, too.

As for phonology, once again remember that there is a great variations of
phonology! An important trait of Northern Germans is that there are stubborn
when it comes to there local dialect. The neighbour from a village some
miles away doesn't speak Low Saxon correctly because it's different... :))

Greetings from Kiel,

Anja

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Orthography

Anja (above):

> Yes, of course. One example is "gahn" (to go) derived from Germanic
> "gengan".

Hmmm ...  and the <h> is supposed to be a trace of the old /g/?!  I dunno
...

> But I avoid it espacially in "daan" (to do) where it is seen quite
> commonly.

But isn't /daan/  [dQ:n] ~ [do:n] the past participial form ('done'), and
the infinitive ('to do') is /doun/ [do.Un]?  This sure is the case where I
come from, and I write them <daan> and <dou(e)n> respectively.
Unfortunately, in many German-based "systems" (and I use the term loosely
;) ), both may be found written as <doon>, namely where the long "a" (/aa/)
is pronounced [o:] (as e.g. in Hamburg).  The trouble with this is that it
ignores the phonemic distinction as well as the phonetic one ([do:(.)n] vs.
[do.Un] ~ [de.Un] respectively, i.e., monophthong vs. diphthong
respectively).  This "bad habit" -- and I try to be kind here -- has led to
confusion and homophony among learners and semi-native speakers and has
inspired speakers of /aa/ -> [Q:] dialects to write both of them as <daan>.
All I can say is "Hold up daar mit!"  :)  Using one of those German-based
"systems" I'd distinguish them as <daan> vs. <doon> respectively.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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