LL-L "Etymology" 2003.10.09 (04) [D/E]

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From: ezinsser at tiscali.co.za <ezinsser at tiscali.co.za>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2003.10.08 (09) [E]

Ron and all,

I understand what you're getting at. I thought the shift from k to an
aspirated h would be
a given in terms of Grimm's law.

Cheers,
Elsie Zinsser

> Something like this appears to have happened indeed.  Consider (assumedly
earlier)
Germanic _hana_ > Finnish _kana_ 'hen' (cf. German _Hahn_, LS _haan_, Danish
_hane_,
Swedish _hane_ 'rooster', German _Henne_, LS _heen_, Danish _høne_, Swedish
_hona_,
_höna_ 'hen') vs. (assumedly later) Germanic *_hana_ > Finnish _hana_ 'tap',
'faucet',
'spigot' (cf. German _Hahn_, LS _haan_, Danish _hane_ 'tap', 'faucet',
'spigot').

> Unfortunately, I can't find a comparative Finnic, Finno-Ugric or >Uralic
index online
that could shed light on this.

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From: kcaldwell31 at comcast.net <kcaldwell31 at comcast.net>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2003.10.08 (03) [D/E]

> From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Etymology
>
> Here is another interesting marine-derived term:  LS _havarey_ (<Havaree>
> [hQvQ'rE.I]) ~ _haverey_ (<Haveree> [hQve'rE.I]) 'freight damage',
> 'breakdown', 'shipwreck', 'accident', 'disaster', 'fight', 'debacle'
> Dutch _averij_ (same)
> Middle Saxon _haverye_ (same)

> > Middle German _hafarei_, _havarie_ > Modern German _Haverie_ (same)
> English (obsolete) "average" (duty/tax imposed on goods)
> < French _averié_ 'damaged (freight)'
> < Italian _avaria_ 'breakdown', 'damage' or
> < Spanish _averia_ ~ _haberia_ 'breakdown'
> < Arabic عوار, عوار٠ة  _`awār_, _`awāriya_ '(freight) damage'
>
> Anything to add?
>
> Regards,
> Reinhard/Ron

Russian _avariya_, "accident".

Kevin Caldwell (kcaldwell31 at comcast.net)

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From: burgdal32admin <burgdal32 at pandora.be>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2003.10.07 (09) [E]

> From: denis dujardin <dujardin at pandora.be>
> Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2003.10.07 (05) [E]
>
> The toponym "Knokke" in Flanders is a very old Celtic toponym which is
> definitely pre-Roman, meaning "hill" . As far as I can remeber, in
> Gaelic
> "an cnochk" has the same meaning.
> So, I dont think it has something to do with "winding etc".
>
> denis dujardin
> flanders

Hi Denis and Ron ,
Die "winding" was maar een referentie naar dat besproken zinnetje
enkele maanden geleden (the long and winding road).Hier had ik
duidelijk een voorbeeld van "volksetymologie" in mijn pen. Inderdaad is
de naam "Knokke" wellicht afgeleid van het Keltisch "ronde heuvel".
Maar we moeten toch voorzichtig zijn, als de oudst teruggevonden naam
pas uit 1227 dateert (Knoka/Knocke).
Wat "Knok , knokken" betreft, in "De Bo"(1892) staat er:
= een ruime plaats of een klein plein, waar verscheidene straten samen
komen .
= blok huizen
= een klein verheven plein, bijna geheel omringd met grachten, waar men
meestel korenschelven opzette.
= een klein stuk land dat temidden van de akkers ligt, en dat langs
alle kanten afgesneden is.

Waarschijnlijk is er wel verwarring ontstaan met dat kruispunt en de
hoeken ervan, en met het werkwoord knakken (= afbreken).

groetjes
luc vanbrabant
oekene

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

Note also the supposedly Germanic-derived Finnish and Estonian word for
'fish': _kala_.  This is supposed to have been derived from the Germanic
word for 'whale', thus originally probably something like "large fish" or
"ocean creature" for the Finnic ancestors who had arrived from the Volga
region at the shores/beaches (_strand_ >) _ranta_ of the Baltic _meri_ (cf.
Old German _meri_, Old Saxon _mēri_, Old Norse _marr_ < Germanic *_marī_):

Old English: hwæl
Old Norse: hvalr (/hval+r/)
*Germanic: *xwalis (*/xwal+is/)

Cf. (Baltic) Old Prussian: kalis 'sheath fish'

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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