LL-L "Etymology" 2003.10.13 (03) [E]

Mon Oct 13 13:10:53 UTC 2003

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L O W L A N D S - L * 13.October.2003 (03) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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Onderwerp: "Etymology"
Van: "Holger Weigelt" <platt at holger-weigelt.de>
Datum: Za, 4 januari, 2003 5:20 am

> But it still remains obvious, that indeed all toponyms in Flanders,
> which have a "knok"-name, are slightly elevated points in the landscape
> which surrounds them.
> What about the word 'knoken' which means ' knuckels'. The "knoken" of
> the hand seem to me the slightly elevated points where fingers "touch"
> the back of the hands.
>
>
> denis dujardin
> flanders

Hello !

I didn't follow this "etymology" topic but when I just read the above
posting I was remembered of the "Knock" a landscape on the North Sea shore
just above the town of Emden in Eastern Friesland. It is a point where the
coastline bends in a sharp angle nearly forming a peninsula. Not an elevated
point but an exposed as well.

Greetings
Holger

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Onderwerp: "Etymology"
Van: jmaguire at pie.xtec.es
Datum: Vr, 10 oktober, 2003 2:03 pm

Hello Denis / Luc / All,

I wonder if the Scots Lallans word "knowe" which means 'knoll,
hillock, hillside' is related to the "knok-name" structure for
toponyms signifying that they lie on higher ground.

For example there is hillock dominating one Scots village which
the locals call "the cockie(?) knowe" which translates - badly -
as the fine-looking knoll.

Regards,

Tom

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Onderwerp: "Etymology"
Van: "Ben J. Bloomgren" <godsquad at cox.net>
Datum: Vr, 10 oktober, 2003 6:17 pm

Grim's Law

Unfortunately I have never heard of Grim's law. Has it to do with the fact
that dialects will develop under certain circumstances?

Ben

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Onderwerp: "Etymology"
Van: burgdal32admin <burgdal32 at pandora.be>
Datum: Vr, 10 oktober, 2003 6:29 pm

> Elsie Zinsser wrote:
>
>> Yes, reminds me of the 'neuk' in Muckleneuk (Pretoria) which
>> presumably
>> means hill.
>
> Could that perhaps be Scots Muckle = 'big', 'large' and Neuk = 'a
> projecting
> point of land', 'the corner of a building or street', 'an outlying or
> remote
> place'?

Hi Elsie,
In my Flemish language we know the word "neuken"(also
nucken/verneuken), which means to give someone a big push (to knok).
We don't use it any more because of the Dutch meaning of the word (to
fu..). It means also to make jokes, to tease...
A "neuker" is an iron band.
Wegneuken( = een neukinge geven)= to push somebody away .

> Ron and all,
>
>> Anything to add?
>
> Yes, what about 'kuni' -old german- as in the first name (Kunigunde)
> meaning
> tribe/folk/kinship?

In Dutch we still use the expression "van beiderlei kunne" (= man and
women)

groetjes
luc vanbrabant
oekene

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Onderwerp: "Etymology"
Van: "jannie.lawn" <jannie.lawn at ntlworld.com>
Datum: Vr, 10 oktober, 2003 4:28 pm

Hai everyone
Ron replied to Antero: Secondly, the _hana > kana_ transformation might be
due to
the Russian influence, compare Hitler>Gitler and _galanda_ = Dutch. Later.
I'm not sure if I will buy this one.  It's supposed to be a very old loan.
Also,
Russian would have had to borrow the word first (> *_???(?)_ [*gan(a)])
and then
pass it on to Finnish (> _kana_).  I don't think there is any evidence of
that.

But, if I remember correctly from a book I read as a child, wasn't
Karelie/Finland
at one time under Russian rule?  Could that have been sufficient to
influence some
words and alter their pronunciation?

Groeten ,
Jannie Lawn-Zijlstra

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From: Dan Ryan-Prohaska <daniel at ryan-prohaska.com>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2003.10.07 (05) [E]

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From: NTL <shoogly at ntlworld.com>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2003.10.07 (09) [E]

<In Scottish Gaelic "an cnoc" is a hill. It is spelt "cnoc" but "cn" in
<Gaelic is pronounced "cr" so it is pronounced /krock/ - so seems it could
<be Gaelic if it is of the   Q-Celtic ( Goedlic group ) - but if
this is in the Gaullish area which I believe it once was - I believe
Gaullish was a
<P-Celtic language and am not aware of what the P-celtic for hill is ( I
<have a Welsh dictionary somewhere - but can't find it ). But it is the
same <as "Usk" like the river in England. This is from the Q-Celtic
Uisge - which
<means water - and I believe the P-Celtic for water is a different word
but
<in the England area in Celtic times this was a P-Celtic area - so there
<must be some historical / etymological reasons for having a Q-Celtic
word <over a P-Celtic. Tracing the placing of the distribution of these
relative <distinct groups is very interesting for showing historical
events

<Crìsdean Mac Fhearghais / Chris Ferguson

----------
Crìsdean Wheg,

There is no way to tell whether <Usk> is p-, or q-Celtic as there is no
Celtic p or q in a relevant position in this word. Just because the
modern p-Celtic languages use a different word for 'water' it doesn't
mean that this word wasn't used some time in the past. There is not only
the river  Usk, but also the city of Exeter - Keresk - with the <-esk>
element also being the cognate of Irish <uisge>. This is the old
indo-european word for #water' and I see no reason to suspect why <Usk>
would be q-Celtic rather than p-Celtic.

Gans pub bolunjeth da,
Dan

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