LL-L "Language contacts" 2003.10.15 (02) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 15.OCT.2003 (02) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: Patrick or Cynthia Karl <pkarl at grasshoppernet.com>
Subject: LL-L "Language contacts" 2003.10.14 (02) [E]

>From: R. F. Hahn
>Subject: Language contacts
>
>I added:
>
>Note also the supposedly Germanic-derived Finnish and Estonian word for
>'fish': _kala_.  This is supposed to have been derived from the Germanic
>word for 'whale', thus originally probably something like "large fish" or
>"ocean creature" for the Finnic ancestors who had arrived from the Volga
>region at the shores/beaches (_strand_ >) _ranta_ of the Baltic _meri_ (cf.
>Old German _meri_, Old Saxon _mēri_, Old Norse _marr_ < Germanic *_marī_):

Since the Hungarian word for 'fish' is 'hal', which seems to be cognate
to the Finnish word, 'kala', it seems more likely to me that the Finnish
word is not borrowed from Germanic, but is rather inherited from the
Finno-Ugric parent language.  Or, I guess, that Hungarian could also
have borrowed it from Germanic.

Regards,
Patrick Karl

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Language contacts

An excellent and useful point, Patrick!  Thanks.
I have always wondered about this hypothesis of Finnish and Estonian _kala_
being Germanic-derived.

Furthermore, 'fish' is _kala_ in Karelian (Karelia and Tver oblast of
Russia), Veps (Vologda, St.Petersburg oblasts and Karelia) and Vod/Votic
(east part of Estonia and St. Petersburg oblast) as well. Saami ("Lapp") has
_guolli_ for 'fish', which I assume to be related as well.

Also, Karelian, Veps and Vod/Votic have _kana_ for 'hen'.

Granted, except Saami, these are Balto-Finnic, and they have had at least
indirect contacts with each other.  So it is not totally out of the question
that they passed Germanic loans on to each other. It would be interesting to
see what the situation in the eastern Finno-Ugric varieties and in other
Uralic ones is.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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