LL-L "Language policies" 2003.10.22 (09) [E]

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From: Gavin Falconer <Gavin.Falconer at gmx.net>
Subject: LL-L "Language use" 2003.10.22 (06) [E/French]

Uilleam Mhic Sheumais said:

"It's a legal loophole, yes, but it's an extremely insulting one (IMO). I
don't know
if it's comparable to you, but it seems analogous to Low Saxon being called
a variety of German in order to make it more acceptable legally, or Scots
being called a variety of English. So, in essence, I think there needs to be
an amendment to the French constitution. As far as I can tell, it's rather
offensive."

I'm not so sure that the analogy is that apposite, since reasonable people
can reasonably disagree about the status of Scots vis-a-vis English,
depending
on time and place.  In the French case, I think it's the Government which is
left looking ridiculous, since educated people know that Breton, Alsatian,
and particularly Basque, aren't at all like French.  The old story of the
Emperor's new clothes or the way that early modern English kings called
themselves "King of England, Scotland, France and Ireland" springs to mind.

There are, of course, questions on which reasonable people may not
reasonably disagree.  Here in Northern Ireland, political bias very often
influences
people's view of Scots.  On the Nationalist side, people claim that Scots is
only "an accent" or that it is the product of a Gaelic substratum in the
same
way as Hiberno-English.  The other daft idea, which is sadly assuming the
guise of orthodoxy, is that Ulster Scots is a language separate from Scots,
though the biggest barrier to comprehension between Scots-speakers from
Scotland
and Ulster really is accent.

--
All the best,

Gavin

Gavin Falconer

Belfast: 02890 657935
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"Wovon man nicht reden kann, darüber muss man
schweigen."

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From: jmaguire at pie.xtec.es <jmaguire at pie.xtec.es>
Subject: LL-L "Language use" 2003.10.22 (06) [E/French]

> Ron said:
> >But aren't they technically varieties of French in France
now?  I was told
> that the European Language Charter had a problem in France
because in the
> constitution is says something like _La langue de la
République est le
> français_.  Rumor has it that the compromise solution is to
refer to German,
> Dutch, Breton, Basque, Catalan, Occitan and Corsican used in
France as
> "French varieties."  If this is true, then everyone does
indeed speak
> "French," and the constitution is not being violated.

Hello All,

Surely the above is just power politics, again, and not in the
least acceptable linguistically.

Catalan, for example is a dialect of Latin at the same level as
French.

The mind boggles to think that anyone would propose the theory
that Basque has any connection with French, lingustically.

Regards,

Tom [Maguire]

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Language policies

Well, perhaps I shouldn't have assumed everyone understood that it was very
much tongue in cheek when I said "Rumor has it that the compromise solution
is to refer to German, Dutch, Breton, Basque, Catalan, Occitan and Corsican
used in France as "French varieties."  If this is true, then everyone does
indeed speak "French," and the constitution is not being violated."

Let it be emphasized, albeit retrospectively, that it was indeed meant to be
facecious.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

P.S.: Gavin, sorry your name sneaked into the subject line of the preceding
installment.  Look at it as a privilege, because no other subscriber's name
has ended in a subject line before.

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