LL-L "Etymology" 2004.08.18 (06) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 18.AUG.2004 (06) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West)Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: burgdal32admin <burgdal32 at pandora.be>
Subject: LL-L "Semantics" 2004.08.17 (02) [E]

> From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
> Subject: How do you say ...?
>
> I wrote under "How do you say ...?":
>
>> I'll write about _te(g)en_ under "Semantics."
>
> And here goes.
>
>
> By the way, the Lowlands Saxon (Low German) verb _te(g)en_ ( past part.
> _tagen_) -- basically 'to pull', or better 'to draw' -- is interesting
> in
> that in many modern dialects it tends to take a back seat to _trekken_
> (<trecken>) with basically the same meaning.  I would go as far as
> saying
> that _trekken_ is the general word for 'to pull', 'to draw', and, yes,
> also
> in exactly the same sense as _trekken_ in Dutch and _trek_ in
> Afrikaans,
> namely 'to migrate', 'to treck'.  _Te(g)en_ tends to have more
> specicialized
> meanings, such as in this case ('to raise (a child)').  Some people use
> _üm-te(g)en_ (<ümte(g)en>) in the sense of 'to move (house)' (Dutch
> _verhuizen_).  I say _üm-trekken_ (<ümtrecken>) instead, which to some
> people sounds like 'to move in a procession'.
>
> I personally feel that in the sense of 'to pull', 'to draw', _trekken_
> connotes a vigorous movement, even 'to drag' (similar to _slepen_),
> while
> _te(g)en_ connotes, at least has the potential to connote, a gentler
> movement.  I would _trek_ a box out from the closet or _trek_ a
> struggling
> child into the house, but I would _te_ (<teh>) threads out of a
> garment or
> herbs out of the soil (but I would _trek_ handfuls of mature, tough
> weeds
> out of the soil).  _Up-te(g)en_ for 'to raise (a child)' thus implies a
> sense of gentleness.
>
> At least these are my perceptions.  Do others disagree?  And how does
> this
> compare with Low Franconian varieties?
>
> By the way, I may have mentioned this before, the LS verb _volgen_
> (_folgen_) means simply 'to follow' in many LS dialects, while in
> others it
> has been specialized to mean 'to participate in a funeral (procession)'
> (i.e., 'to follow a casket', e.g., _Wy hebt by Jan-Oom volgd_ 'We
> attended
> Uncle John's funeral'), and in these dialects 'to follow' has to be
> paraphrased, e.g., _achter ran gaarn_ (<achterrangahn>).
>
> Are there similar situations in other Lowlands varieties, either
> pertaining
> 'to follow' or any other basic verb that has taken on a specialized
> meaning
> and can no longer be used in its original meaning?
>
>
> Regards,
> Reinhard/Ron
> Hi Ron
In West-Vlaanderen we use the following  verb:
togen(toogde-getoogd), also:
tog/toôg/teug...
Tog mao nao skole (E: Go on to school now (in a friendly way)
Hij toog nao bedde  (E: He went to his bed)
In the agriculture:
togen = eggen en slepen (E: to harrow and to drag)
I think the word "tocht" is related.
1V: ne tocht = E: a draught / a march / a journey
2V: tocht doen an nen akkre =  E: labour  on the field

groetjes
luc vanbrabant
oekene

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From: Kevin Caldwell <kcaldwell31 at comcast.net>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2004.08.18 (01) [E]

> From: Críostóir Ó Ciardha <paada_please at yahoo.co.uk>
> Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2004.08.17 (10) [A/E/Yiddish]
>
>
> John Duckworth wrote:
> "I think the answer to this is that at some point English found itself
> with
> two words for time - a Norse one, and an Anglo-Saxon one."
>
> Yet English can use _tide_ to mean _time_ in certain (archaic and usually
> poetic) instances (e.g., _yuletide_ and _Christmastide_). So, I presume,
> the
> Norse and Old English cognates jostled for favour for a long period. The
> _tide_ examples cited above seem to date from the Victorian era, when the
> marriage of Victoria and Albert brought unprecedented German cultural
> influence onto upper-class metropolitan culture - the Christmas tree, for
> instance. Could _tide_ thus be a romantic calque from German _zeit_ in
> this
> case, and not so old after all?

The word "eventide" can be traced back to Old English "oefentid".

Is the English word "tidings", meaning "news", related to "tide"?

There is also the verb "tide", as in, "This snack should tide you over until
dinner."  Also "betide", meaning "to happen".

Kevin Caldwell

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