LL-L "Etymology" 2004.08.28 (08) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
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From: John Duckworth <jcduckworth2003 at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Etymology

The connection was mentioned by Ron, and others, between the American slang
word _dude_ and _Yankee doodle_ of the song.

I had never thought of this before. I just looked up _doodle_ in the Shorter
Oxford English Dictionary and found that it dates back to the 17th century
as a slang word for a foolish person. It suggestes that the etymology for
this was 'Low German' _dudeltopf_  or _dudelkopp_, with the same meaning.
Surely _dudeltopf_ with final _-pf_ is a High German form though? Shouldn't
it be _dudeldopp_ ?

Are forms beginning with _dudel_ still used in Low Saxon? I can't help
thinking of the German word for 'bagpipe' - _Dudelsack_ . What is the
etymology of the _dudel-_ here? The verb _dudeln_ is presumably denominative
from _Dudelsack_ ? Jakob and Wilhelm Grimm in Das Deutsche Wörterbuch give
the lemma _Dude_, and gloss it as 'ein alberner Mensch, stupidus.' Could
that be the origin of the other words?

I always find the term _dude_ so funny, because it reminds me of the Arabic
word _du:d_ , meaning 'worm'! (I wont try to write the Arabic in Unicode!)

John Duckworth
Preston, UK

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

Thanks, John.  Fantastic!

> It suggestes that the etymology for this was 'Low German' _dudeltopf_
> or _dudelkopp_, with the same meaning. Surely _dudeltopf_ with final
> _-pf_ is a High German form though? Shouldn't it be _dudeldopp_ ?

_Dudelkopp_ ("doodle head") makes sense.  _Dudeltopf_ would be German, would
have to correspond to _dudel-pot_ (<Dudelpott> "doodle pot") in Lowlands
Saxon (Low German).  (A few peripheral LS dialects have _top_ (<Topp>) for
'pot', but in most dialects this means 'top', 'summit', 'crown (of a tree)'
and '(hair) braid', and 'pot' is _pot_ (<Pott>).)

> What is the etymology of the _dudel-_ here?

_Dudeln_ refers to playing the bagpipes or to grinding a hurdy-gurdy or
street organ.  It also can be used for a sound that reminds you of this
pause-less music of a hurdy-gurdy, hence _Dudelmusik_, and of course
_Dudelsack_ ("doodle sack/bag") 'bagpipes'.  In this sense, _dudeln_ means
also 'to play music badly (or without expression)' (which I resent if
bagpipes are involved, which I happen to love).

I have a feeling it is indeed related to English "doodle" and 'to doodle."

_Dudeln_ can denote the round-and-round movement of a "doodle," of grinding
a hurdy-gurdy (hence the round-and-round movement of English "doodling").
If you want to make a hand sign to indicate someone is "all mixed up in the
head" or plain "insane" you perform round-and-round movement next to your
head.  Hence, I can very well see the older connotation of "silly,"
"stupid," etc.

This _dudeln_ is believed to ultimately go back to onomatopeoea.  However,
it probably reached Continental Germanic varieties from Slavonic varieties.
As you probably know, bagpipes used to be used all over Europe, and
(unbeknowns to many people who associate them only with Britain and Ireland)
they are still played in many Continental areas.  The varieties of Eastern
Europe, traditionally made from goat skins and still widely used as folk
instruments, are known as _dudy_ in Kashubian, Polish, Czech, Slovak as well
as in Germany's two Sorbian (Lusatian) languages, and Bulgarian folkmusic
relies heavily of bagpipes known as _duduk_.  (This is supposed to go back
to Turkish *_duduk_, but I am not aware of such a word in Standard Turkish,
_tulum_ and _gayda_ being the words for 'bagpipes'.  Does anyone else know?)

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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