LL-L "Phonology" 2004.12.04 (01) [E]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 04.DEC.2004 (01) * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
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From: Theo Homan <theohoman at yahoo.com>
Subject: LL-L "Phonology" 2004.12.02 (13) [E]

> From: Gary Taylor <gary_taylor_98 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Phonology
>
> Hi All
>
> Ok, I've done a bit of research, partly on my own,
> and partly from what
> everyone here's been saying and I've got rough
> pronunciations of r figured
> out, and whether it's vocalised or not, for the
> Lowland area. Note not
> necessarily for fun - it does tie in with my
> research, so purely selfish,
> but thought you might be interested. Please correct
> me if anything here's
> wrong.
>
> Netherlands/Belgium
>
> 1 Totally rhotic areas where r is pronounced in all
> positions as [r] (tongue
> tip r) inlude the middle
> swathe of the Dutch speaking area (including Brugge,
> Antwerp, Breda,
> Tilburg, Eindhoven, Helmond, Nijmegen, Arnhem). Also
> possibly Lelystad,
> Hoorn, Alkmaar, Den Helder - not so sure.
>
> 2 Areas where the r is throaty ([R]) and variably
> deleted or vocalised are
> the Randstad (see the earlier definitions) and
> isolated examples in area 1
> such as Bergen op Zoom
[...cut]
-------------------------

thank you, Gary, for clear representing.
I want to make a small note, which is not
contradicting, and -I think- superfluous; but which is
made just for the case of phonology, and maybe will
clarify a bit for our not dutch-speaking friends.

To clarify this I just take one exemple:
'schikken' and 'schrikken'.
In the last word a lot of dutchmen will not pronounce
the 'r', but they make a 'delay' on the r-position; so
the transition to the following 'i' is longer than in
'schikken'. And so, without a 'r', you have two
different words.

 vr.gr.
Theo Homan

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From: Críostóir Ó Ciardha <paada_please at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Phonology" 2004.12.03 (02) [E]

Gary wrote:
"The r in Southeast England towns is often [P] (labio-dental approximant)
amongst 'younger' speakers. (Arising from a speech defect that has become
generally accepted?) This I know from my own English, which you'll hear on
the Wren project, when we're all finally allowed to
hear the soundfiles... I've also heard it reported for Norwich and wouldn't
be surprised if it was used elsewhere."

I think I have described this before, but there is an odd - odd to me at
least - r in some variants of Nottingham English that seems to have
developed from acceptance of a speech defect. It is a merger between [v] and
a soft [r], and can be heard most clearly in the cluster /kr/, so that
_crack_ or _crank_ become [kvraq] and [kvrangq]. It seems to be used mainly
by younger speakers. Given that Nottingham English has one of the weakest
[r] ranges of any English variant, the [vr] cluster may represent an attempt
by younger speakers who have been more widely exposed to the more forceful
[r] heard on television and in films to approximate a stronger sound.

Go raibh maith agat,

Criostóir.

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