LL-L "Language policies" 2004.12.16 (06) [E]

Fri Dec 17 00:14:26 UTC 2004

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From: Críostóir Ó Ciardha <paada_please at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Language politics" 2004.12.16 (02) [E]

Gary wrote:
"What I was trying to say, but didn't express perhaps as well as I wanted,
was the following."

Don't worry. I don't perceive you to be a linguistic chauvinist. Nor do I
think you were singling Irish out for particular dislike, although I admit I
can get prickly around the matter.

Gary also wrote:
"If they introduce interpreting in the European parliament, they will need
say five interpreters [...] The money that will be invested for their work
could easily be used to train and employ 10 native Irish speaking teachers.
These ten would conservatively reach 40 children each per year - so 400
children. If they stay in teaching each for an average of 10 years then in
all they will reach 4000 children. Which I think would be a much more
worthwhile use of money, than to reach a handful of MEPs who don't really
need this service anyway. The same would go
for Low Saxon/Scots/Frisian etc. teachers."

European expenditure is European expenditure. Money saved from translation
will not be reinvested into basic education in Ireland or any other member
state - it will simply be recycled within the EU structures. On the whole I
like the essence of your proposal in that it focuses on grass roots
projects. Unfortunately the Irish Government is much more fond of
superficial gestures (such as the idea that Irish is the "first and national
language", for instance), rather than any real language revival.
Irish-medium education was resisted by Dublin, until parents had been
running successful schools themselves privately for years. The Government
likes to be seen expressing concern about the prospects for Irish but beyond
that its policies are as Anglophone as they come, representing a minimalist
engagement with the subject necessary to appear that a little is being done.

Gary also wrote:
"Alternatively the money could be invested in local media services - perhaps
training native speaking journalists, news presenters or whatever."

Again, this is not really a tax issue but one of government will. The Irish
Government set up TG4 in 1997 as Teilifis na Gaeilge but heavily caveated
the project, and still expects the channel to run on next to no funding in
comparison to the English-language public broadcaster RTÉ. One consequence
of this is that Irish-language programming only accounted for about a third
of TG4's output in 2002, with English making up the remaining two-thirds.
The Irish-language newspaper Lá (Day) receives minimal government grants, as
does Foinse (Source), a weekly. Both were long-standing private 'enthusiast'
initiatives.

Many native Irish-speaking journalists cannot or do not find work in the
Irish-language media, and shift to English instead. Gráinne Seoighe (TV3 /
Sky News Ireland) and Sharon Ni Bheoláin (RTÉ) are good examples of this, as
is Hector Ó hEochagáin who became famous in Amú on TG4 only to be poached by
English-speaking channels. The relative weakness of the Irish language media
is a widely recognised problem in language circles, but passed off as a
success story by government.

"To provide a service in a minority language in far off Brussels and
Strasbourg doesn't in
my view boost the image of the language as much as it could. This has to be
done locally to make the people who already have a knowledge of the language
aware that it can be used in education and media and that it is a worthwhile
language. I would much sooner spend money in this area than in providing
interpreters for MEPs."

I understand this attitude, but in my heart I cannot agree with it. I
understand the flak Irish takes - the Luxemburgish commissioner who asserted
somewhat smugly that instead of campaigning for official EU status for the
language we Irish should put our efforts in learning, speaking and
normalising it in our country. That is a fair if blunt assessment.
Unfortunately our own governments have actively worked against Irish since
the 1920s, when our sense of pragmatism led to the essential abandonment of
the project except among a minority of the population who were enthusiastic
enough to carry it on and strengthen it.

Census after census has shown that Irish is known by 40+ per cent of the
population. It is criminal neglect that TDs and MEPs who nearly all know the
language well do not use it habitually, for fear of provoking some feared
backlash against Irish. I think official status for the language in the EU
would facilitate its wider use in the European Parliament, particularly by
some fervently pro-Irish MEPs, but it is a hope more than a fact. I suppose
what I am saying is please be tolerant, even if you feel that Irish is a
waste of taxpayer's money.

Gary also wrote:
"In Ireland and your example Malta English is an official language and so as
such should be understood by officials from the two countries. As English
happens to be a language that is official in more than one country, it makes
a lot more sense to use this at a fraction of the cost
than hiring interpreters in Maltese and Irish."

As I said in my last reply, I am increasingly disillusioned by the creeping
monolingualism of an EU self-reportedly "united in diversity". I am
particularly aghast at the proposal in the EU Constitution for there to be
only three official languages (English, French and German). In reality,
English is the official language of the bloc. "Unity in diversity" has
become a quaint idea, to be wheeled out to make the union look a bit more
'cultured' than the United States.

Gary wrote:
"I understand the emotive feelings behind the use of English but negative
feelings against a certain language because of historical reasons should
have no place in a unified Europe."

Steady on. No-one implied that. I hardly have anything against English as a
language in that I speak it as well as Irish and Cornish. My opposition to
one or three official languages is detailed above. I don't see why any
language should be dominant: it encourages monolingualism. As for the issue
of a "united Europe", well, that's not for this list, but I think "ever
closer union" is a project that is advancing for its own sake rather than
because it is the preferred option of the majority of Europeans.

Gary wrote:
"...be sensible about how money can be best spent to further the Irish
language cause."

Would you write that about the English, French or German language "causes"?
No doubt I do get emotive around this subject, but I feel that the public
debate in general has swung round to the issue of the usefulness of
depriving Irish of what Irish speakers want - namely EU status for the
language. Irish speakers pay their taxes - if they want EU status for the
language, is that not "sensible" and their right?

Gary wrote:
"I have thought this one through... I know there is corruption in Europe and
that a large part of my taxes are probably wasted anyway, but don't waste
more of them - put my taxes to better use so that we can support Europe's
language diversity, instead of making unnecessary token gestures."

Here's a scenario, then, Gary. Instead of focusing on Irish, let's look at
how many EU parliamentarians can speak English. What do you think the
proportion would be - 50, 60, 70 per cent? Less? More? Instead of "wasting"
so much apparently precious tax money on interpreters at parliament
sessions, why don't we have a blanket rule in the European Parliament that
states everyone should speak English? Or French? Or German? Perhaps we
should use your taxes to fund language classes for the non-English speakers
in the parliament so they can converse in English and not waste anyone's
taxes.

I don't mean to appear glib. It's just that this debate seems to be about
mammon versus cultural identity, with the intimation that in some cases,
culture is not worthwhile.

Lastly, Gary wrote:
"Go raibh maith agaibh, (I say this back - I don't know what it means, and I
hope you haven't been insulting us with this all these years...)"

I would never use a language to secretly insult anyone. Besides, there are
enough Irish (and Cornish!) speakers on this list that I would be instantly
found out if I tried - most likely by our omniglot, Ron. "Go raibh maith
agat" simply means "thanks (to one person)" - "Go raibh maith agaibh" to
more than one.

Go raibh maith agatsa a Ghary,

Criostóir.

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Language policies

Críostóir:

> Besides, there are enough Irish (and Cornish!) speakers on this list
> that I would be instantly found out if I tried - most likely by our
> omniglot, Ron.

Huh?! Wazzat? Tá glór óinmhid agam? Watch whatcha say 'bout me!
(Or "I'll omni *your* glot," as my mother-in-law would have said.)

Tereba nessa,
Reinhard/Ron

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